Ladder Silver and Gold

[Moneywarrior]

Or ya know. Instead of talking about how to lower the bar by limiting existing competitor which just make pvp weaker imo. Strive to overcome these old boomers that repeating with old and outdated teams. We are all new buds once in the time(even those old boomers) believe it or not and have to outgrow the older trees and knock them out of the garden. Right now i hear a lot about how to take the shortcut by cutting down these trees instead of you know, get better then them and actually earn a spot in the garden by yourself.  
I do like suggestion 2 tho where we simply merge the server into 1 superserver and let the best all compete in 1 single ladder, then we truly see who are the toughest among real competition.
To sum it up. Tougher competition will naturally grow the competitive skill level while lowering the bars make every1 worse. Talking about preventing existing good players to play by either literly restricting them or take away their rewards will simply make the future of pvp weaker. If you want to get ladder isnt it beter you earn it by knocking those old washed up players down, or do u want the pity price where u only get the empty throne by name cause no1 else bothers?

Edited September 30, 2020 by MoneyWarrior

[Moneywarrior]

And those that talk about economy. Isnt this how the ecnomy been working like forever in pro? By this i mean the playerbase. There is a disporpotion btw pve and pvp player where there is way more players interesting in pve then pvp. By design every1 can pve and strike gold with pure rng which remove the skill level here to make money. Along that pve players are the sellers. With that i mean "buyers" in this game are either pvp players or collectors. The collector group of people are alrdy rich hence they can "collect" and they are not rly relevant in this discusion anyway so lets talk about pvp players. Pvp is the LITERAL deffining factor in this games economy. While the collector group have a stake in pokemon prices this games economy is mainly driven by the wants and needs of pvp players. So more often then not pvp players are the one who gives money to all the pve farmers when they buy pokemon. Now this means there is a huge money movement from the pvp players direcly to the pve players and this flow of money is very very one sided. This means that there is a constant stream of money pvp players are supplying the pve players (which ofc motivate the pve group to keep farming). By design this money flow is not sustainable if the pvp players somehow dont get the reason or motivation too keep the money which also mean the whole economy flowing. What is that reason/motivaion? Well LADDER is a big part of that reason. So yeah people here who talk about how unfair and yada yada pvp ruins the ecnonomy. PVP players, escpecially old school pvp players who are the literal reason u pve players have a big bank acount, those are the real suppliers, which make u wonder who are the "real farmers" in this case. All these new direction of limiting pvp players influence on the economy mindset is very misguided in my opinion where if you kill the pvp players money maker you literly kill a majority of the games economy (maybe i overexaggerate, or maybe not).

If you look at the toplist of bill gates in pro you see way more pve names then pvp names.
So to sum this up. Put some respect to all ladder players, especially old school ladder players that can keep repeat their name there. They are one of the OG driving factors in this economy and this new movement of driving them away is very disrespectful imo.
And before you rebutal of "these pvp players can also farm and pve their own mon!!!" ... Well if they do and farm their own mons then why would they buy pokes from you? If they stop buying mons from pve suppliers what do you think will happen to the economy? who will give you 500k for a azumarill? Now your jobless and cant put food on the table for your own family

Edited September 30, 2020 by MoneyWarrior

[Malltesers]

Hello !
 

I understand the idea of the topic and i can understand why you're mad but well, the idea is just gonna lower the skillbase in Pro.

 

The goal for you is to give the opportunity to more players to reach ladder by cutting some competition (not allowing 2 ladder in 2 different server). Which means, you actually want to make the competition less competitive.

 

There is no easy way about getting better, whenever i join silver it is to meet more and greater players. The greatest my opponents are, the happier i am cause i can learn more and more.

I met waaaay too many players that spam the OU teams, basic stall that played honestly bad and were like 2-3 games away from ladder just cause they had strong team overall. This idea is about giving them the opportunity to reach ladder, a spot in ladder tournament while not being good enough to do it by themselves.

 

If your goal is to split the actuel skilled players between 2 servers instead of taking this as an opportunity to get better and overtake them, we're just gonna make this a pve game with advantages, if the game had more players, i could have understand this idea but this isn't the case there.

 

As "Moneywarrior" said in the post just above "strive to overcome these old boomers" and feel proud they you manage to reach ladder.

Since most of you said that the economy impact from the ladder isn't really huge (which is true honestly for the time it takes); Ladder is an achievement to prove you're one of the best. For the sake of the hardworkers that want to overtake us, don't give them a low tier experience in pvp

[Stavd]

1 hour ago, malltesers said:

Hello !
 

I understand the idea of the topic and i can understand why you're mad but well, the idea is just gonna lower the skillbase in Pro.

 

The goal for you is to give the opportunity to more players to reach ladder by cutting some competition (not allowing 2 ladder in 2 different server). Which means, you actually want to make the competition less competitive.

 

There is no easy way about getting better, whenever i join silver it is to meet more and greater players. The greatest my opponents are, the happier i am cause i can learn more and more.

I met waaaay too many players that spam the OU teams, basic stall that played honestly bad and were like 2-3 games away from ladder just cause they had strong team overall. This idea is about giving them the opportunity to reach ladder, a spot in ladder tournament while not being good enough to do it by themselves.

 

If your goal is to split the actuel skilled players between 2 servers instead of taking this as an opportunity to get better and overtake them, we're just gonna make this a pve game with advantages, if the game had more players, i could have understand this idea but this isn't the case there.

 

As "Moneywarrior" said in the post just above "strive to overcome these old boomers" and feel proud they you manage to reach ladder.

Since most of you said that the economy impact from the ladder isn't really huge (which is true honestly for the time it takes); Ladder is an achievement to prove you're one of the best. For the sake of the hardworkers that want to overtake us, don't give them a low tier experience in pvp

i completely disagree with the core of your thought...the only thing double laddering do is kill competitiveness...double ladder players take over 1000 coins per months, which means more rerolls, more money, more perfect pokes...and they do that just by switching server, they dont even try, just move their pokes...same time decent players just struggle for an average legendary and don t have the required money to buy decent pokes...bear in mind that 1000pvp coins=6 iv rerolls+ 1 nature reroll =almost 4m pokedollars...to make things fair, double rewards should be forbidden, otherwise the gap will raise and ladder will become a place for a few, based not on their quality but on their privileges...Closing, i wanna say once more that game should work in a way that will be constantly trying to nerf good players and not boost them...this way new players will be attracted, since they will feel they might get a chance...otherwise, new players will get disappointed, abandon game, and we will pvp the same 50 people in each server...

Edited September 30, 2020 by stavd

[Evilprotagonist]

Or you know the "newer players" should feel accomplished every time they face older player and learn something from it, or feel good by beating them and have it as a goal. I know myself when i was a 200 rating player getting pumped every time i manage to snipe deidara  And the game is alrdy constantly nerfing "higher rating players", it's the current unlucky matchmaking system xD ( i could go on and writte a essay about it, but i think XD sums it up pretty well). 

 

And you know by saying we will only have the same 50 people all the time is basically saying u think all these newer players are stupid, 0 iq to grow/improve and will never beat the previous "goood players". Kinda pessimistic and abit ego dont you think? To say they will never improve and keep being bad for the rest of their gaming lives.

 

I personally didnt become good by playing against 200 rating players all the time. I didnt manage to get to 400 + for the first time by playing other who have no idea what they were doing. And i have personally experimented and tried to help some players improve and seen them jump from 200 rating to 450 ish. And again i rly dont think they would actualy improve and know what they are doing by playing against others who themself have no idea what they are doing. So the opinion that by limiting newer players exposure to beter players will actualy help pvp is bs imo, its just a short cut disguised with a  cheap excuse.

 

Oh and a example of what these talent suppresing ideas are, i can draw pararells to the game League of legends if people play it. The eu servers euw and eune. Basicly eune is considered a joke server cause all the good players transfers over to euw. Because why would they not? all the PRO players and high elo players do, there is 0 incensitive to play in eune when no1 else does. I myself felt the need to transfer over to silver and play against their players back in 2019 when people told me gold ladder was a joke in comparison. Nowdays where we have  good players taking their time to play on both servers would only bolster the reputation of hitting ladder. That should consider a blessing and a good thing. Otherwise it might end up like the eune server comparison, a joke server where people compare eune challenger to euw diamond etc.

And about the money gap. Read above the text about the economy moneywarrior posted which i agree with. If you want to complain about this "money gap". Complain to the pve community. How much does a ladder player make at the end of the month? And how much do a t8 good pvp poke get sold for? How long does it take for a single pve farmer to farm in 30 days to get 1 or even more of those good t8 mons? Yeah i think 1+1+1=3 and we can quickly trace where the big money lies. Check out the dashboard where all them biggest money are, how many of them are pvp names? Pvp players are LITERLY paying rents to pve players to stay relevant every time meta changes/ new pokemon are introduced or just to switch up their team. You rly should not cry wolf about how other pvp players are somehow draining the resource pool off each other when pve players are sitting at the side watching us squabbles among ourself while sipping their glass of wine and taking our paychecks. This line of though does not belong here or should be discussed in a separate topic.

Edited September 30, 2020 by EvilProtagonist

[Pispi13]

First of all as Malltesers said , this will make ladder even less competitive that it is rn . 

Secondly i hardly disagree on what was  said about the economy .Money u get from pvp is nothing compared to the amount u can make from pve . So i dont see why we should punish ladder players .

 

P.S.Eune isnt that bad as they say evilprotagonist

Pepesad 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Pispi13

[Evilprotagonist]

 

Naw man eune sucks xD

Edited September 30, 2020 by EvilProtagonist

[Eaty]

That's a tricky topic. It has pros and cons but the only relevant reason to even discuss it would be that more unique users could collect rewards. We already have a restriction for alt accounts but never even considered to restrict accounts cross server simply cause we did not have user controlled server transfers. This changed and it might be enough to discuss this but I am personally not sure if that would be a good move. My personal choice would be a cross server queue and battles, which won't happen any time soon and probably never.

This is also not a topic for me alone to decide. I see valid points for and against a cross server restriction. I am sure this will be discussed within staff (and maybe escalated to a public vote) in near future.

[Speedy]

think that the best is the solution of Gdarch, that is to say to have 50 different players qualified for the "ladder tournament"

Is it possible and possible?

[0danobunaga]

i think we can just wait cross server pvp