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PRO PvP Viability Rankings [Last updated on 08/17/2022]


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PRO PvP Viability Rankings

by Jorogumo

 

Welcome to the unofficial PRO PvP Viability Rankings thread, where we as a community can reflect on the current metagame in an attempt to accurately rank every single viable Pokémon. Everyone is encouraged to share their thoughts regardless of their level of expertise. Keep in mind that these rankings can never be entirely objective and that, as such, our opinions on the viability of several Pokémon may differ. Moreover, I am of the view that usage should not dictate viability. If you wish to look at usage stats, please check this thread instead. While we may disagree, what matters is maintaining civility and respect throughout our discussions. As a host, I will do my best to take into account everyone's thoughts. Currently, there is no ranking team responsible for updating the PRO PvP Viability Rankings as frequently as possible, but I deemed it necessary to provide the community with a freshly updated Viability Ranking post. I have submitted this list for review purposes to many players who have expressed a mix of agreements and disagreements over its content and I am thankful to all of them for their contributions. However, as I was understandably unable to satisfy everyone, I decided to keep the reviewers' names anonymous to avoid associating some of them with a list that they may not agree with.

 

The following Pokémon are ranked in alphabetical order within each sub-tier:

 

S Rank:

S Rank

Spoiler

Clefable

Clefable

 

Landorus

Landorus-T

 

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Spoiler

Ferrothorn

Ferrothorn

 

Gliscor

Gliscor

 

Heatran

Heatran

 

Jm8bPLeze4ZnXZ9MtoCL28idRkaIUmTgj9I3Q8UgFoAeV5OkvKee6ndN99f0KFm2cYjGvJIZUAEKbc64nO6rRA1oTY2xDXl6KbkuJMB5soinljRLQBbmAIkTTx9YBJzcPKqQsSRo

Keldeo

 

SQJJtF7d3xJpJO_v_E7ExsuQ22sX2cQFNXfS9IfK_MnIqgcll3T9RJ_wAE7da7AfjoNA8HCZ-nHw4C-3Jaqausx4Er_q96bkwBwn-zjRsmThEhdUQZOVgVEHIeTmoQCnxByjrig2

Metagross (Mega)

 

Rotom

Rotom-Wash

 

https://i.imgur.com/1cYEdPo.png

Scizor (Mega)

 

Tornadus

Tornadus-T

 

A Rank

Spoiler

0ChkspzpSPru8fOQAKUS4B2XnAiXkdBgi2uC9S4kkvul1C8LDYODreiDzOWNONenfEWURF0-UfiyrFSCOj1w2rH4TR4dlTZYAv_mik36_i6NjoI43YSORg5DlSXqkSTLOXc1rCB3

Alakazam (Mega)

 

Bisharp

Bisharp

 

9Lk3qLImqvBk5Ba-XKtq0lTlZcFXAkfLlDXaAQssKAzT5stnsESBhYnh7Ipq0CVYUNhZ4xfabQzM0pg5poAYbEcNWqdBESlW4w3a65k2HimbOlZi5FjgJZu3lkXM8Duj5t5nIK58

Diancie (Mega)

 

Excadrill

Excadrill

 

Garchomp

Garchomp

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/380_2-png.275692/

Latias (Mega)

 

Latios

Latios

 

https://i.imgur.com/nSRP4Nb.png

Lopunny (Mega)

 

Manaphy

Manaphy

 

Rlt8uofkK04vcOKD_Kml0oVtUhRvT6SW1fjJVBXKOXoBPf8siMXWBnx7qexaQklAVBdk6LyXNoJtn519cRXUr2FbbIUE5uiwSdcBjzpbz4pJkLLqlEC6qwpiSANoy8jgkT4Ph2oY

Medicham (Mega)

 

Serperior

Serperior

 

Tyranitar

Tyranitar

 

Weavile

Weavile

 

Zapdos

Zapdos

 

A- Rank

Spoiler

Azumarill

Azumarill

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/006_2-png.274409/

Charizard (Mega-X)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/006_3-png.274411/

Charizard (Mega-Y)

 

https://i.imgur.com/5qgIfKA.png

Gyarados (Mega)

 

kyurem-black.png

Kyurem-B

 

Latias

Latias

 

Magnezone

Magnezone

 

Slowbro

Slowbro

 

Tangrowth

Tangrowth

 

Thundurus

Thundurus

 

5dqJDWSECJJQ97ftyf8yspF3Q-GsQkFsK9WlxPklZIsKz6gz4bwuZYXgFlIYr4FQN7SQroZb13_Po3mnPasQ57DzEO69tYvD41MwHftZez2TWlvA9l0ByNsOXE1MlvgmmEVIprVK

Tyranitar (Mega)

 

Volcarona

Volcarona

 

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Spoiler

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/334_2-png.275690/

Altaria (Mega)

 

Amoonguss

Amoonguss

 

Chansey

Chansey

 

Dragonite

Dragonite

 

https://i.imgur.com/P5b8BnI.png

Heracross (Mega)

 

Hippowdon

Hippowdon

 

Hydreigon

Hydreigon

 

Jirachi

Jirachi

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/381_2-png.275694/

Latios (Mega)

 

xUrnRHNxICbsVX8F4Qa-QH5bogk7Q2zjhRwT8vn3voLa-P1jIq1aY5vzcGpyiVj_G26GYVFswjDXTecBTDyG56jMvIgw0SYHCworZEUonEolDfeCWlPcgCZ31e4s9cQFwpB4EZGb

Manectric (Mega)

Mew

Mew

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/038_2-png.273477/

Ninetales-Alola

 

Pelipper

Pelipper

 

uwhku30bIop61QSa7KGXtu9pbta0_oV5oiKNPeCCU4I_gb4Hl0M8XvmSijtzdhgL6mn5BVpxSZ5SDTFm9UX7wgzpn7vNj-hoB1NBGbYwcw9Gofu7wZhRlI4Z5u1AndIJGJkBO-1N

Pinsir (Mega)

 

Skarmory

Skarmory

 

1nvOm3AOIUuZQsAYHn8Ei-FeGvDiUNPN_hZhQV6niFW1lyoj-a3k5qY_L-w0aCTeybClzgTCvsmiONpCA5o1JkLrIPIOvIAvwd4vftghCYabqP8IdG1TvUiDQ8XBKV7aDrigUMpn

Slowbro (Mega)

 

Suicune

Suicune

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/260_2-png.275685/

Swampert (Mega)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/003_2-png.276600/

Venusaur (Mega)

 

B Rank

Spoiler

Alomomola

Alomomola

 

Breloom

Breloom

 

Crawdaunt

Crawdaunt

 

https://i.imgur.com/pcJY7vs.png

Diggersby

 

https://i.imgur.com/lpBdUjN.png

Gallade (Mega)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/282_2-png.274421/

Gardevoir (Mega)

 

Gastrodon

Gastrodon

 

Gengar

Gengar

 

Kingdra

Kingdra

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/784-png.102306/

Kommo-o

 

Kyurem

Kyurem

 

Mamoswine

Mamoswine

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/778_1-png.116854/https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/778_2-png.116856/

Mimikyu

 

Nidoking

Nidoking

 

Reuniclus

Reuniclus

 

Scizor

Scizor

 

Thundurus

Thundurus-T

 

Togekiss

Togekiss

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/721-png.273701/

Volcanion

 

B- Rank

Spoiler

hGgaDSefsIj4kEaQcAcD6UBe4XXWFf1NdRC8JXR44jVi3r9VpMHHWzkVfSuFPVfelFEm0qtalLxI3Pe0NAqfD4evnahYViYnwMOsTb_BJRMKypm7MIpg8NtTOmK3u0Q2zd-XPTWS

Aerodactyl (Mega)

 

Alakazam

Alakazam

 

Azelf

Azelf

 

Chandelure

Chandelure

 

Cloyster

Cloyster

 

Conkeldurr

Conkeldurr

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/445_2-png.274431/

Garchomp (Mega)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/701-png.273676/

Hawlucha

 

Infernape

Infernape

 

Jellicent

Jellicent

 

Lucario

Lucario

 

Mandibuzz

Mandibuzz

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/089-png.102480/

Muk-Alola

 

Raikou

Raikou

 

Scolipede

Scolipede

 

Slowking

Slowking

 

Starmie

Starmie

 

Tentacruel

Tentacruel

 

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/h2zh6LP.png

Aggron (Mega)

 

https://i.imgur.com/oFbRG62.png

Beedrill (Mega)

 

Celebi

Celebi

 

https://i.imgur.com/hW3F0r3.png

Chesnaught

 

Ditto

Ditto

 

Gyarados

Gyarados

 

Heracross

Heracross

 

https://i.imgur.com/e2jTcuy.png

Klefki

 

Mantine

Mantine

 

rfEoXNEqNK65lSEnTYBo2rPJ4x6-QN98nJeyhI3U5aZ4Xjdhg65fyz106_HpFelUrtoj7mUOMuj7DY6VEmbxaYmmrENNGZIXKv6vl5tRSUxWc2NUa10kppvFSNyaluPoikKS4lGT

Pidgeot (Mega)

 

Quagsire

Quagsire

 

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/pokemon-magma/images/3/3e/743.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20200506103128

Ribombee

 

Staraptor

Staraptor

 

C Rank

Spoiler

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/359_2-png.290745/

Absol (Mega)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/009_2-png.276604/

Blastoise (Mega)

 

Cofagrigus

Cofagrigus

 

Cresselia

Cresselia

 

680_2-png.300600

Doublade

 

Feraligatr

Feraligatr

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/105-png.177819/

Marowak-Alola

 

Moltres

Moltres

 

Porygon2

Porygon2

 

Rotom

Rotom-Heat

 

Salamence

Salamence

 

https://i.imgur.com/IL7SnRG.png

Sceptile (Mega)

 

92oUaFxiJFLX0bTAWIHJaVKK0n2O58nJY6ju-mUiwnI6tIqQw27VZqUBF5zywgRSlhMFzqHd5B_D_PTRhlV_UMncEArTtdhs6RwkoQVZKmyFNXdtDe6shZ3RfFZFg9nGfo_yuMCs

Sharpedo (Mega)

 

Shuckle

Shuckle

 

Torkoal

Torkoal

 

Toxicroak

Toxicroak

 

Uxie

Uxie

 

Venusaur

Venusaur

 

C- Rank

Spoiler

Aerodactyl

Aerodactyl

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/181_2-png.275718/

Ampharos (Mega)

 

Blissey

Blissey

 

Bronzong

Bronzong

 

OkCJVD3zU2gu_DTnooDeCj4nFM1FiYI6R2W-TYePtvIRV24D8CH-rW8x_okGJUtYrt8bio0i9yl8xpWj6foRC1ZoGNgnAYeR_cZAMVsVD2wW8kPMh6QvDSfzjXkv9kG0IV6DChgz

Camerupt (Mega)

 

Darmanitan

Darmanitan

 

https://i.imgur.com/KXlB2LD.png

Dragalge

 

Empoleon

Empoleon

 

Entei

Entei

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/076-png.102478/

Golem-Alola

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/362_2-png.290747/

Glalie (Mega)

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/229_2-png.275683/

Houndoom (Mega)

 

Ludicolo

Ludicolo

 

Magneton

Magneton

 

Metagross

Metagross

 

ndVxD9smJiN-4uperXvp0s9rl52jVIIxNljU0cktgR8N4on3P0P5FdhLo6TYQQOzoXjPZsR2nBieX6DbmCgZScwm447F8qov6IJG8umES5uQvYsKr5sfORG2p63S_unBQJgd78_F

Porygon-Z

 

Rhyperior

Rhyperior

 

Seismitoad

Seismitoad

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/700-png.274482/

Sylveon

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/697-png.276694/

Tyrantrum

 

Venomoth

Venomoth

 

Whimsicott

Whimsicott

 

Xatu

Xatu

 

I am unable to explain the reasoning behind every single placement, but I will try to break down some of the rankings whenever I have time.

 

Please feel free to discuss any of the above rankings.

 

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Viability-Rankings.png

 

Edited by Jorogumo
Updating the PRO PvP Viability Rankings
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  • Jorogumo changed the title to PRO PvP Viability Rankings [Updated]

The PRO PvP Viability Rankings have been updated to be more representative of the current metagame, although future changes are still highly possible due to its relative recency. Because of last season's short-lived metagame, I was unable to update the Viability Rankings. As such, this is the first time that Wave 3 Megas and Mega Diancie are included in the VR.

 

Explaining some of the rankings:

Alakazam (Mega): A+ (New entry)

Sporting 438 Speed, Mega Alakazam is the fastest Mega in the current metagame—a distinction only shared with Mega Aerodactyl. Its high Special Attack and its access to coverage moves such as Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Calm Mind, Substitute, Hidden Power Ice, Recover, Knock Off, Energy Ball, and Encore make it an extremely potent threat to many Pokémon and playstyles. Even though it is very frail on the physical side and falls to many priority moves, its Speed and coverage make it hard to revenge kill with conventional options, such as Pursuit or powerful Dark-type attacks. Some of its (limited) reliable answers include Mega Scizor, Chansey, specially defensive Jirachi, and Assault Vest Alolan Muk on the defensive side and Mega Metagross, Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Bisharp, and some Tyranitar variants on the more offensive end of the spectrum. Mostly held back by the inaccuracy of Focus Blast, which is crucial to OHKO Pokémon that would otherwise KO it, Mega Alakazam is able to threaten offensive, balanced, and defensive teams alike. Trace drastically improves its match-up against weather teams, while allowing it to Trace useful abilities, like Flash Fire and Regenerator, in order to let it switch into certain threats more easily. While Mega Alakazam is a powerful and fast offensive Pokémon that every player must prepare for properly because it has the potential to sweep many teams if it does not miss Focus Blast, it still misses out on many OHKOs and 2HKOs—some of which require it to hit Focus Blast twice against key targets—without proper hazard support. Mega Alakazam also struggles to be a dominant force in a metagame characterized by the prevalence of Megas like Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor.

 

Medicham (Mega): A+ (New entry)

Thanks to Pure Power and 100 Base Attack, Mega Medicham is an extremely hard-hitting wallbreaker with just enough Speed to Speed tie many relevant threats sitting at 100 Base Speed. Its powerful—albeit inaccurate—STAB moves complement its offensive toolkit nicely and its access to useful coverage options like Ice Punch and Thunder Punch allows it to wallbreak more efficiently. Fake Out is a useful priority move that guarantees its safe Mega evolution while aiding it in revenge killing certain threats, although its Speed is somewhat lackluster against speedier, more offensive teams against which it can choose to run Bullet Punch to be less of a liability. Its relative frailty means that it can sometimes faint if it fails to KO a specific target (e.g., Clefable's Moonblast has a chance to OHKO it from full). Incredibly difficult to switch into for defensive and balanced teams, its (limited) defensive answers include Psychic-type Pokémon able to withstand both its STABs, such as (regular or Mega) Slowbro, Mew, and Reuniclus, and some Ghost-type Pokémon with limited viability, such as Cofagrigus and Doublade. Due to the nature of its kit, Mega Medicham can prove to be quite prediction-reliant, thus allowing Pokémon that would normally fall to one or two of its moves, like Landorus-T, Latias, Latios, Tornadus-T, and Clefable, to switch into it and force it out. It faces competition from Mega Lopunny, which has a better match-up against more offensive teams, but Mega Medicham's assets against other playstyles make it one of the most potent wallbreakers in the current metagame. As a wallbreaker with middling Speed, it also faces competition from Mega Gardevoir, which has an easier time muscling past its checks and counters on defensive and balanced teams, while Mega Medicham struggles to break something like (regular or Mega) Slowbro if it does not carry the appropriate coverage.

 

Metagross (Mega): A+ (New entry)

Despite barely escaping the banhammer, Mega Metagross continuously comes up in PvP discussions as the strongest Mega in the current metagame or even the most likely threat to be banned. It has incredible stats across the board, including a usable 105 Base Special Attack. Its 145 Base Attack, further enhanced by Tough Claws on many of its damaging moves, makes it incredibly difficult to switch into. It also sits at 350 Speed, thus Speed tying or outspeeding many potent threats, such as Gengar, Latias, Latios, Mega Diancie, Keldeo, and Garchomp. Mega Metagross has access to many viable moves that can be tailored to whatever its team needs. It can choose from Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Thunder Punch, Grass Knot, Bullet Punch, Pursuit, Stealth Rock, Rock Polish, Hidden Power Fire, Toxic, and even Shadow Ball. Slightly held back by the loss of coverage if it opts for a luxury or utility move, thus leaving it walled by Pokémon that it would otherwise be able to defeat, Mega Metagross still has some reliable answers—and even a few counters—that prevent it from being outright overpowered: Mega Scizor, Alomomola, Skarmory, Hippowdon, (regular or Mega) Slowbro, Mew, Tangrowth, Suicune, etc. Because it is prediction-reliant, Mega Metagross tends to struggle against certain cores centered around common Pokémon, such as Ferrothorn, Rotom-Wash, Landorus-T, TankChomp, and Heatran. While Mega Metagross has incredible physical bulk, it is relatively prone to chip and hazards, which wears it down throughout the course of a match and somewhat mitigates the fear of needing to OHKO it from full. In the current metagame, Mega Metagross is able to function extremely well as a wallbreaker—and, more rarely, as a set-up sweeper—, although it struggles to get past some extremely common Pokémon (e.g., Mega Scizor) without additional team support (e.g., Magnezone).

 

Diancie (Mega): A (New entry)

Last season, Mega Diancie was arguably worthy of A+ for its coveted ability to get Stealth Rock up against Mega Sableye teams. The current metagame is, unfortunately, less friendly towards it, perhaps because it is better prepared to face it. On paper, Mega Diancie seems to be a devastating mixed wallbreaker, sporting 160 Base Attack and Special Attack, as well as a crucial 110 Base Speed and powerful STABs in Diamond Storm and Moonblast. So, why does it no longer belong in A+? In practice, Mega Diancie runs more often than not into Pokémon that halt it in its tracks. Defensive teams usually carry at least one Mega Diancie counter: Chansey is the most common one, but Mega Venusaur, mixed Alomomola, Hippowdon, and specially defensive Gliscor are all decent countermeasures. Offensive teams typically pressure it enough to prevent it from switching into much, thus exacerbating the disadvantages of Mega Diancie's Fairy/Rock dual typing, its extremely low base HP, and the impracticality of abusing its ability against those teams. Moreover, they commonly run faster Pokémon, such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Serperior, and Mega Lopunny, that force it out, while sometimes opting for the likes of Mega Scizor and Mega Metagross, which can switch into most of its moves and proceed to threaten to OHKO it. Balanced and bulky teams now run sufficient (defensive and/or offensive) counterplay to Mega Diancie, including the common Ferrothorn and more uncommon—but available—answers, like Assault Vest Tangrowth, Hippowdon, Jirachi, Gliscor, Amoonguss, mixed Clefable, and Mew. In reality, Mega Diancie rarely runs Hidden Power Fire—mostly for practical reasons—, which worsens its overall match-up against Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor and makes it less self-sufficient than some of the offensive threats in A+, which require less team support. Protect is also a double-edged sword that lets Mega Diancie Mega evolve and scout for Choice-locked moves for free, although it can be taken advantage of in the same way that it tries to take advantage of opposing Pokémon, since Protect is relatively easy to punish. Because it heavily benefits from running such a move to circumvent its relative frailty and common weaknesses to Grass, Ground, Water, and Steel attacks, Mega Diancie struggles to vary its moves and choose other options, like Rock Polish, Calm Mind, and Stealth Rock, which are all nice on paper but nigh impossible to fit on Mega Diancie's tight-knit moveset.

 

I will continue later...

Edited by Jorogumo
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ik we talked about this in DM but I really feel that both Lati twins being ranked below mons like Bisharp, Weavile, and Zapdos is a massive travesty and makes no sense - Scarf Tyranitar is not common enough to keep them from being by far the best Keldeo answers for teams that care about tempo - Latios's draco meteor is an insane special nuke and Latias has more utility than 95% of the tier.

 

Alakazam-M (51% on-paper 2hkos) and Medicham-M (mediocre speed tier, garbage bulk) are both overrated imo, Diancie is better than them in general with 110 speed tier + unique typing + magic bounce, but we talked about this as well.

 

just wanted to post my thoughts to maybe start some discussion

Edited by idkup
  • Like 1

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I may not have enough experience to talk much about PvP ( I am still new) but I honestly think that Weavile should higher than it is. Ofc it is one of my favorite mons and I use it all the time in Pvp, It's Ice&Dark typing make it supper effective against: Dragon, Rock, Ground, Ghost, Psychic and Grass types. This is already a lot of coverage for just one pokemon. Ofc it has an equal amount of weakness: Steel, Rock, Fire, x4Fighting and bug. And the fact that its defensive and spdef stats are poor if not utterly useless. However, Weavile has incredible speed and attack making it a very good glass Cannon. It's spd guarantees that it would outspd most threats (if not holding choice scarf), meaning you could add a life orb or a Choice band to it for more power. Of course if you want your Weavile to dish out hits without immediately dying, you could always add a focus sash to it to ensure it can live longer to check other threats.

 

With this said I think Weavile should be placed on S tier

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On 5/16/2021 at 4:51 AM, Shadowing said:

I may not have enough experience to talk much about PvP ( I am still new) but I honestly think that Weavile should higher than it is. Ofc it is one of my favorite mons and I use it all the time in Pvp, It's Ice&Dark typing make it supper effective against: Dragon, Rock, Ground, Ghost, Psychic and Grass types. This is already a lot of coverage for just one pokemon. Ofc it has an equal amount of weakness: Steel, Rock, Fire, x4Fighting and bug. And the fact that its defensive and spdef stats are poor if not utterly useless. However, Weavile has incredible speed and attack making it a very good glass Cannon. It's spd guarantees that it would outspd most threats (if not holding choice scarf), meaning you could add a life orb or a Choice band to it for more power. Of course if you want your Weavile to dish out hits without immediately dying, you could always add a focus sash to it to ensure it can live longer to check other threats.

 

With this said I think Weavile should be placed on S tier

Just gonna say, S tier means that the pokes can be played on basically any team with little to no thought given, other than about the set to be played. In this case there is only one because Clefable is the only pokemon that actually can be added to any team, because it can play so many roles. Weavile however, plays one, fast physical attack. If a team already has one of these, or a scarfer, or just something with like dragon dance, it has less use for weavile, and some teams just straight up wouldn't want weavile in the team whatsoever. You also didn't mention that weavile being a glass cannon takes a lot of damage from almost every priority move, and additionally takes the bad 25% from stealth rocks. Considering it doesn't really like staying in against some of the common defensive pokemon, who could simply do quite a bit of damage to it, and overall other scarf pokemon as you said, Weavile is a much weaker pokemon than you portrayed it to be. 

582664592_SignaturePRO.gif.70cdafd9bdecee8b3cbad20ae1fcc93a.gif

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6 hours ago, g3n3r4l said:

Just gonna say, S tier means that the pokes can be played on basically any team with little to no thought given, other than about the set to be played. In this case there is only one because Clefable is the only pokemon that actually can be added to any team, because it can play so many roles. Weavile however, plays one, fast physical attack. If a team already has one of these, or a scarfer, or just something with like dragon dance, it has less use for weavile, and some teams just straight up wouldn't want weavile in the team whatsoever. You also didn't mention that weavile being a glass cannon takes a lot of damage from almost every priority move, and additionally takes the bad 25% from stealth rocks. Considering it doesn't really like staying in against some of the common defensive pokemon, who could simply do quite a bit of damage to it, and overall other scarf pokemon as you said, Weavile is a much weaker pokemon than you portrayed it to be. 

Thx for explaining

 

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On 5/14/2021 at 11:12 PM, idkup said:

ik we talked about this in DM but I really feel that both Lati twins being ranked below mons like Bisharp, Weavile, and Zapdos is a massive travesty and makes no sense - Scarf Tyranitar is not common enough to keep them from being by far the best Keldeo answers for teams that care about tempo - Latios's draco meteor is an insane special nuke and Latias has more utility than 95% of the tier.

 

Alakazam-M (51% on-paper 2hkos) and Medicham-M (mediocre speed tier, garbage bulk) are both overrated imo, Diancie is better than them in general with 110 speed tier + unique typing + magic bounce, but we talked about this as well.

 

just wanted to post my thoughts to maybe start some discussion

Thank you for bringing this up, idkup. After extensively using both Lati twins last season, I can safely say that they are both worthy of an A placement. I did encounter several KeldTar teams, but even those did not particularly hinder the performance of either one of the Lati twins. Weavile teams have to play risky games and either sacrifice a Pokémon to bring in their Pursuit trapper or hope that Latios or Latias is clicking Defog or Recover/Roost.

 

Latias' utility and bulk is always appreciated and, unlike Latios, it does not always have to heal up after switching into Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Volcanion, etc. Healing Wish Latias is particularly good on dedicated offensive teams that appreciate having a check to specific dangerous threats (such as the ones I just mentioned) that also happens to possess Defog and the ability to give one of its teammates a second chance.

 

As for Latios, I have been an avid user of the Life Orb variant, as I do appreciate its ever so slight increase in power (in comparison to Soul Dew variants). It still manages to chunk Heatran and Ferrothorn quite nicely while obliterating the likes of Zapdos, which might attempt to Roost up on its powerful Draco Meteor, if they happen to be faintly weakened. Choice Specs sets are quite prediction-reliant but can wallbreak rather effectively and are a threat to all teams. I am less sold on Choice Scarf Latios, because I would then prefer using Latias, but I can acknowledge the occasional worth of such a set.

 

I do not particularly find Mega Alakazam to be overrated. I only faced it a couple of times, but it managed to land all its hits while sometimes lowering the Special Defense of my main checks for it. I think it is still dangerous in a metagame where many teams (mostly balanced ones) are relying on their defensive Mega Alakazam checks without necessarily having any priority move in the back to handle it if it ever gets out of hand (e.g., Calm Mind, Substitute...). From personal experience, Mega Scizor was also surprisingly uncommon last season, at least on Silver server. Oftentimes, players find themselves in a position to have to hope that Mega Alakazam misses Focus Blast against something that could KO it back.

 

As for Mega Medicham, I was not impressed by its performance. I think its frailty and relatively lackluster Speed are definitely holding it back. Slowbro has been increasing in usage and I have even encountered some Mew sets that can always survive its hits. Overall, I do think it might be the weakest Mega in A+, but I am open to other opinions.

 

Finally, we get to Mega Diancie... I still find that it struggles far too much against all archetypes to be considered on par with other A+ threats. Chansey is still one of the most used Pokémon in the metagame and Ferrothorn gives it too much trouble on balanced builds. I will admit, however, that it makes it easier to anticipate certain switch-ins to try to take advantage of them. Protect is also a double-edged weapon, as it allows the player to scout for Choice-locked users while leaving the outplay door open for both parties.

Edited by Jorogumo
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