Aman21 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 207837 206295 Now Mr. "The PvP Champion" rudolph first of all bro add weights to your point and explain your reasoning please and bart is better and has better understanding of the metagame than you. First of all your justification is slowbro is only dead with special attackers if opponent is dumb ? bro do you even know what prediction and double switch-ins and agrresive play-style and hyper offense is ? and what is "blissey function" ? kindly enlighten me other than it being a pink blob that dies to hazards and any decent physical attacker. Oh sir, Bart is better than me how can you sure about that, whats measurement did you use? Double switch for what sir, slowbro check the normal dmg while blissey check the special dmg, it does not matter what you switch in and even if you set hazard a prepared stall team always have rapid spin or defog. And sir, you are not a good PvP player either, whats your rating now? how can you talk big and teach other people like you know everything. People here only give their opinion sir, and you don't have to be rude towards other. oh so you are saying that if you are facing a team with blissey and slowbro you are helpless and can't do anything and they should get banned ? Lol this is logic like this that triggers me first of all slowbro has lots of checks and there is a thing called "prediction" in pokemon and stall auto loses to aggresive plays ghost types blocks rapid spin first of all and that is a dedicated strategy and your argument is based on "stall is hard to counter" which is bad to begin with and i am supplying actual valid points here unlike you saying "whats yr rating and are you good ? " with the logic you are giving and your knowledge of the meta-game seems narrowed down to stall and nothing's getting banned so what is the point ? at-least provide valid reasoning my friend. There are a lot of players that are much better than me playing pokemon and maybe pro as well and i have my fair share of chokes and losses but i know my facts and points and i am up for a healthy debate anytime regarding bans and restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolph Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 oh so you are saying that if you are facing a team with blissey and slowbro you are helpless and can't do anything and they should get banned ? No i don't say that. i just make an counter argument from your previous comment. Lol this is logic like this that triggers me first of all slowbro has lots of checks and there is a thing called "prediction" in pokemon and stall auto loses to aggresive plays ghost types blocks rapid spin first of all and that is a dedicated strategy and your argument is based on "stall is hard to counter" which is bad to begin with and i am supplying actual valid points here unlike you saying "whats yr rating and are you good ? And again i don't say that, you can't block defog with ghost though, there is no valid points from your comment. Of course rating is matter that is a valid proof to measure how good you are and how many experience you have in PvP you still want to avoid this fact? You just talking loud but saying nothing. with the logic you are giving and your knowledge of the meta-game seems narrowed down to stall and nothing's getting banned so what is the point ? at-least provide valid reasoning my friend. There are a lot of players that are much better than me playing pokemon and maybe pro as well and i have my fair share of chokes and losses but i know my facts and points and i am up for a healthy debate anytime regarding bans and restrictions. Like I said people here just giving their opinion you don't have to tell them if "this is right & this is wrong" , i just give counter argument from your previous comment, and you mad already, not to mention you keep conclude things out of nowhere :Nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman21 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 207857 oh so you are saying that if you are facing a team with blissey and slowbro you are helpless and can't do anything and they should get banned ? No i don't say that. i just make an counter argument from your previous comment. Lol this is logic like this that triggers me first of all slowbro has lots of checks and there is a thing called "prediction" in pokemon and stall auto loses to aggresive plays ghost types blocks rapid spin first of all and that is a dedicated strategy and your argument is based on "stall is hard to counter" which is bad to begin with and i am supplying actual valid points here unlike you saying "whats yr rating and are you good ? And again i don't say that, you can't block defog with ghost though, there is no valid points from your comment. Of course rating is matter that is a valid proof to measure how good you are and how many experience you have in PvP you still want to avoid this fact? You just talking loud but saying nothing. with the logic you are giving and your knowledge of the meta-game seems narrowed down to stall and nothing's getting banned so what is the point ? at-least provide valid reasoning my friend. There are a lot of players that are much better than me playing pokemon and maybe pro as well and i have my fair share of chokes and losses but i know my facts and points and i am up for a healthy debate anytime regarding bans and restrictions. Like I said people here just giving their opinion you don't have to tell them if "this is right & this is wrong" , i just give counter argument from your previous comment, and you mad already, not to mention you keep conclude things out of nowhere :Nervous: oh we can give any stupid opinion to ban anything and no one should contradict it ? fine mods please ban hippowdon its the best mixed wall in this game with plethora of support moves and offensive presence at the same time. :Sleeping: :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolph Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 207860 oh we can give any stupid opinion to ban anything and no one should contradict it ? fine mods please ban hippowdon its the best mixed wall in this game with plethora of support moves and offensive presence at the same time. :Sleeping: :devil: You can't even absorb the point from my simple reply, And again you conclude things out of nowhere, sir you can reply people with counter opinion in a [glow=red]Good Manner[/glow] instead of telling them which one is right and which one is wrong or teaching them like you are an EXPERT based on nothing, i say this because you can't even prove that you have enough experience in PRO pokemon battle. Sir you are beyond help bye.. bye.. :Shy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman21 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 207867 207860 oh we can give any stupid opinion to ban anything and no one should contradict it ? fine mods please ban hippowdon its the best mixed wall in this game with plethora of support moves and offensive presence at the same time. You can't even absorb the point from my simple reply, And again you conclude things out of nowhere, sir you can reply people with counter opinion in a [glow=red]Good Manner[/glow] instead of telling them which one is right and which one is wrong or teaching them like you are an EXPERT based on nothing, i say this because you can't even prove that you have enough experience in PRO pokemon battle. Sir you are beyond help bye.. bye.. :Shy: bye my spirit animal :) have a good day if you can :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerod Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 i do a small summary now because the personal wars are butchering the discussion. i remind everyone again, we talk about bans because we are missing content and noone knows how long it will take to implement the content. Therefor saying "just implement the content" is not valid!!! Also waiting till content is added before taking action means we do different thing while we have the same problem (may or may not having OP's available) I'll add some alternatives to hard banns because a lot of problems are a result of a combination of pokemons, abilities or moves. Consider this: in most cases banning one aspect of the problem renders those pokemons useless (in Pro) resulting in a hard meta shift. Banning the combination only weakens the pokemon resulting in more counterplay. 1. Ban Regenerator 1.1 reduced to Slowbro because Tangrowth and Amoonguss are weak to comon Talonflame and Staraptor, Slowking not as good in comb with blissey (skarmory as counterpart should be considered here) + there is no downside to hard switching without pursuit and other trapping moves working correctly + without choice items and life orb mixed attackers wont deal enough dmg to a combo of 2 different walls switching in and out + regenerator and regen moves - there are still counters available like hydraigon, Togekiss, Tryannitar, mixed Salamence, special defense pokemons with access to regen moves like mew, Shadow tag pokemons - Slowbro is good answer to comon sweepers like Talonflame and Staraptor Alternative actions to be considered: -> ban combination of Blissey+Slowbro or Skarmory+Slowking (but the combo is not as good against Talonflame or Staraptor and both are weak to electirc) 2. ban shadow tag + its uber in smogon/competetive for reasons and for years 2.1 ban shadow tag Gothitelle + pursuit not working for easy revenge kill + Gothitelle can come in on special attackers and setup up calm mind almost for free - only shadow tag makes her relevant. stats and typing arent phenomenal - extremly rare (h.a.) - u can still switch with u-turn, volts witch, baton pass - because trapping moves like pursuit arent working its a good counter to stall teams alternative actions to be considered: --> ban pokemons with shadow tag and boosting moves (calm mind) + encore 3. gale wings Talonflame + "its too strong" - enough counters available like Lanturn, Tyrannitar, Jolteon, extreme speed users (impish Arcanine), stealth rock (50% dmg) - a sweeper is supposed to deal dmg 4. prankster Sableye + magic bounce and magic guard not working - it has low stats - low offensive presence - prankster Klefki has higher stats than prankster Sableye but can be steel trapped 5. Staraptor + "to strong with reckless" - without roost recoil and stealth rock are very effective - mostly used as anti lead but Galvantula, Aerodactyl and Forretress (with sturdy and counter) kill it - steel types resist both stab moves (Bronzong and Metagross arent weak to fighting too) - faster pokemons and priority are an option - a sweeper is supposed to deal dmg 6. entry hazard + tm defog not available - rapid spin is avaiable - some pokemon have acces to defog through eggmove Guides: Hoenn Excavation Sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharlank Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Uhm... Banning... Hazards? :/ uhm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatmanclt Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 A good solution : -Ban ability regenerator -Ban ability Shadow Tag Youtube - Shiny Pvp Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likuet Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 208261 i do a small summary now because the personal wars are butchering the discussion. i remind everyone again, we talk about bans because we are missing content and noone knows how long it will take to implement the content. Therefor saying "just implement the content" is not valid!!! Also waiting till content is added before taking action means we do different thing while we have the same problem (may or may not having OP's available) I'll add some alternatives to hard banns because a lot of problems are a result of a combination of pokemons, abilities or moves. Consider this: in most cases banning one aspect of the problem renders those pokemons useless (in Pro) resulting in a hard meta shift. Banning the combination only weakens the pokemon resulting in more counterplay. 1. Ban Regenerator 1.1 reduced to Slowbro because Tangrowth and Amoonguss are weak to comon Talonflame and Staraptor, Slowking not as good in comb with blissey (skarmory as counterpart should be considered here) + there is no downside to hard switching without pursuit and other trapping moves working correctly + without choice items and life orb mixed attackers wont deal enough dmg to a combo of 2 different walls switching in and out + regenerator and regen moves - there are still counters available like hydraigon, Togekiss, Tryannitar, mixed Salamence, special defense pokemons with access to regen moves like mew, Shadow tag pokemons - Slowbro is good answer to comon sweepers like Talonflame and Staraptor Alternative actions to be considered: -> ban combination of Blissey+Slowbro or Skarmory+Slowking (but the combo is not as good against Talonflame or Staraptor) 2. ban shadow tag + its uber in smogon/competetive for reasons and for years 2.1 ban shadow tag Gothitelle + pursuit not working for easy revenge kill + Gothitelle can come in on special attackers and setup up calm mind almost for free - only shadow tag makes her relevant. stats and typing arent phenomenal - extremly rare (h.a.) - u can still switch with u-turn, volts witch, baton pass - because trapping moves like pursuit arent working its a good counter to stall teams alternative actions to be considered --> ban pokemons with shadow tag and boosting moves (calm mind) + encore 3. gale wings Talonflame + "its too strong" - enough counters available like Lanturn, Tyrannitar, Jolteon, extreme speed users (impish Arcanine), stealth rock (50% dmg) - a sweeper is supposed to deal dmg 4. prankster Sableye + magic bounce and magic guard not working - it has low stats - low offensive presence - prankster Klefki has higher stats than prankster Sableye but can be steel trapped 5. Staraptor + "to strong with reckless" - without roost recoil and stealth rock are very effective - mostly used as anti lead but Galvantula, Aerodactyl and Forretress (with sturdy and counter) kill it - steel types resist both stab moves (Bronzong and Metagross arent weak to fighting too) - faster pokemons and priority are an option - a sweeper is supposed to deal dmg 6. entry hazard + tm defog not available - rapid spin is avaiable - some pokemon have acces to defog through eggmove Interesting points. I dont really agree on banning regen yet thought. It is very strong but i dont think its a must use it yourself or lose the game type of thing like some legendarys would be if they were available and allowed. I dont really mind shadow tag gone however i still think if you build your team correctly and lose 1 pokemon to goth you still have basically a 5v5 since his goth cant do anything to other pokemon once you are built to face it/know opponent has it. This wouldnt be the case if choice scarf was a thing and goth could just proceed to sweep with scarf after +6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerod Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 208266 Uhm... Banning... Hazards? :/ uhm... it was brought up with a valid argument (tm defog missing) but i added the counter arguments too. 208285 Interesting points. I dont really agree on banning regen yet thought. It is very strong but i dont think its a must use it yourself or lose the game type of thing like some legendarys would be if they were available and allowed. I dont really mind shadow tag gone however i still think if you build your team correctly and lose 1 pokemon to goth you still have basically a 5v5 since his goth cant do anything to other pokemon once you are built to face it/know opponent has it. This wouldnt be the case if choice scarf was a thing and goth could just proceed to sweep with scarf after +6. This whole discussion is heavily biased because we have different playstyles, play against different enemies and in different ratings. And reading the last 15 pages i got the feeling the goal improving the pvp experience for everyone (and maybe improve variaty in gameplay with the given content) got lost. Just because some1 is experiancing stuff ingame doesnt mean its the truth. I dont like a hard ban on Regenerator or Shadowtag too. That's the reason i added alternatives. If i follow the discussion i see the problem in the first case in the combination of regen Slowbro and natural cure Blissey while u cant trap Slowbro with pursuit. And in the second case its the combination with trapping and setting up and switching out for free (no pursuit) after the kill. choice items dont matter for gothitelle because of lock in -> cant use setup and dmg moves. So in both cases pursuit will improve gameplay, choice items and life orb not neseccarily because of recoil and lock in. IMO if we leave the route of hard ban Yes/No and try to find more alternatives we may find solutions better than smogon. Guides: Hoenn Excavation Sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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