PRO Viability Tier List [Updated on December 27, 2018]

[Qeight]

Hey there @Jorogumo , I stickied your thread, can you do me a favor and a date to the title when the list was updated the last time?

 

I will have this and idkup's list pinned and want to have both as updated as possible so it would be awesome if you could add a date to the title as well as keep updating the title when you make changes to the list.

 

Kind regards,

Q8

[Jorogumo]

Hey there @Jorogumo , I stickied your thread, can you do me a favor and a date to the title when the list was updated the last time?

 

I will have this and idkup's list pinned and want to have both as updated as possible so it would be awesome if you could add a date to the title as well as keep updating the title when you make changes to the list.

 

Kind regards,

Q8

Done. Thank you!

[Dakivid]

• Kingdra: A or A-?
  
• A, best rain abuser
  
• Weavile: A or A+?
  
• A+, best, fast attacker right now
  
• Hippowdon: A- or B+?
  
• B+, sand pretty bad rn
  
• Klefki: A- or B+?
  
• A-, solid mon with new additions like Magic Room/Foul Play
  
• Starmie: A- or B+?
  
• A-, 2nd best rapid spinner that can hurt spin blockers, new addition of Analytic is nice too
  
• Arcanine: B+ or B?
  
• B, totally outclassed by Heatran
  
• Feraligatr: B+ or B?
  
• B+, scary set up mon, cant get stopped if it has the right set
  
• Gastrodon: B+ or A-?
  
• A-, beats Heatran, Grneinja, Rain
  
• Lucario: B+ or A-?
  
• A-, scary set upper
  
• Mamoswine: B+ or A-?
  
• B+, gets walled by the very common Rotom variant
  
• Mantine: B+ or A-?
  
• A, totally underrated
  
• Omastar: B+ or B?
  
• B-, bad
  
• Serperior: B+ or A-?
  
• A-, can 6-0 bad built teams
  
• Haxorus: B or B+?
  
• B+/A-, underrated as hell, when paired up with Zone
  
• Jellicent: B or B-?
  
• B-, gets outclassed by Mantine/Gastro
  
• Ninetales: B or B-?
  
• B, meh
  
• Smeargle: B or B-?
  
• B+, versatile af
  
• Shuckle: B or B-?
  
• B-
  
• Talonflame: B or B-?
  
• B-
  
• Torkoal: B or B-?
  
• B-
  
• Exeggutor: B- or C+?
  
• C+
  
• Victreebel: B- or C+?
  
• B-
  
• Gardevoir: B- or C+?
  
• useless w/o megas
  

[Theakalli]

• Kingdra: A or A-? A
  
• Weavile: A or A+? A+ being able to be faster than gren and pursuit trap it is awesome
  
• Hippowdon: A- or B+? B+
  
• Klefki: A- or B+? B+
  
• Starmie: A- or B+? B+
  
• Arcanine: B+ or B? B
  
• Feraligatr: B+ or B? B+
  
• Gastrodon: B+ or A-? A-
  
• Lucario: B+ or A-? A-
  
• Mamoswine: B+ or A-? A-
  
• Mantine: B+ or A-? B+
  
• Omastar: B+ or B? B
  
• Serperior: B+ or A-? A-
  
• Haxorus: B or B+? B+
  
• Jellicent: B or B-? B
  
• Ninetales: B or B-? B-
  
• Smeargle: B or B-? B
  
• Shuckle: B or B-? B
  
• Talonflame: B or B-? B-
  
• Torkoal: B or B-? B-
  
• Exeggutor: B- or C+? C+
  
• Victreebel: B- or C+? B-
  
• Gardevoir: B- or C+? B-
  

[Sgtbianco]

We are discussing all of the changes, and of course would like to know your opinions, and would appreciate some actual discussion as to why the Pokemon should move. This is how I would rank them, let me know if and why you would change something.

 

• Kingdra: A-
  

Kingdra is a staple on pretty much all rain teams, it's an extremely powerful mon with great typing, speed in rain, and defenses. Sadly for Kingdra, Ferrothorn is the most used Pokemon in pvp along with Gastrodon and Mantine rising in usage. Kingdra is pretty predictable with its sets (nobody runs hp electric) and easily dealt with by common Pokemon such as Chansey and Tangrowth, along with all the previously mentioned ones. Because its only usage is on rain (besides the extremely rare Critdra set), along with lack of versatility, I do not believe it belongs in the same tier as other A-rank Pokemon.

• Weavile: A+
  

With the introduction of Pursuit, this already extremely dangerous Pokemon became even better. It is the fastest commonly seen Pokemon with access to priority and coverage moves to beat some counters. With Pursuit, it is easily the best revenge killer in the meta and is one of the most splashable Pokemon, being seen on all sorts of teams from stall to hyper offense. With a Choice Band on, Weavile has a chance to OHKO Latios after rocks damage, with Pursuit, even if it stays in. The few downsides that made me hesitant to put it in A+ are its lack of set versatility and its weakness to Stealth Rock.

• Hippowdon: B+
  

Although it's a decent weather setter and stealth rocker, I find very little reason to ever use this Pokemon on a team. Tyranitar is usually the better option on sand teams and there are many better defensive options to handle meta Pokemon. Many of the Pokemon it is supposed to handle are uncommon in the PRO meta or not even in the game. Some examples are electric types like Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Zapdos, Raikou, and some fire types like Talonflame, Mega Charizard X and Y.

• Klefki: B+
  

It's a good dual screens user and spikes setter for hyper offense, but besides that, it doesn't have many other uses. As a defensive Pokemon, it loses to almost all of the top tier Pokemon. Klefki's main faults are a lack of bulk and reliable recovery as well as losing to many common hazard removers such as Rotom-Wash, Excadrill, and Gliscor.

• Starmie: B+
  

I'll start by saying I really like Starmie, so maybe I'm a bit biased. I had a lot of success with it in Gen 6 OU on Showdown. It is a good offensive spinner for hyper offensive teams and a reliable spinner on bulky offense or balance. It recently gained its hidden ability, Analytic, which helps the offensive set that lacked power without it. Sadly, at the same time, Pursuit got added into the game which Starmie has no way of playing around. The main problem is that Starmie is still missing a necessary move for the defensive set: Reflect Type. This would allow Starmie to predict being Pursuit trapped and would give it a fighting chance in the match-up. Without it, a Pursuit trapper could simply switch in on Starmie and remove it from the match. This, of course, only concerns the bulky set, as even a Choice Scarf Tyranitar wouldn't want to switch into a Life Orb, Analytic-boosted Hydro Pump. Once Reflect Type is coded, I will consider rising Starmie up to A- once again.

• Arcanine: B
  

I agree with David, it's just completely outclassed offensively and defensively by better Pokemon even in the same tier.

• Feraligatr: B+
  

I'm happy with where it is. It's a decent set up sweeper with Dragon Dance and a decent wallbreaker with Swords Dance, along with access to Sheer Force, priority, and good coverage.

• Gastrodon: A-
  

With all of the recent changes to the meta, Gastrodon has become a very solid defensive Pokemon. The biggest thing it has going for it is being one of the best answers to the ban-worthy Greninja lacking grass coverage. Along with Greninja, it also walls other very common top tier Pokemon such as Heatran lacking grass coverage, most Rotom variants, and most rain Pokemon. Unlike Mantine, it can even handle Kabutops and mixed Dragonite.

• Mamoswine: B+ (not sure)
  

This one is very tricky for me. It seems a bit better than some Pokemon in B+, but worse than some in A-. It has a good offensive typing along with dark and fighting coverage, but is walled by some common defensive Pokemon such as Rotom-Wash and Skarmory. It has a lot of downsides such as frail defenses with an ice typing, slower than many other offensive Pokemon, and an ability that doesn't help it offensively. One plus side is having access to Stealth Rock and Oblivious, so it could be used as a decent suicide lead.

• Mantine: A-
  

I think this Pokemon is extremely underrated right now, being able to handle some extremely scary threats such as most Greninja sets, Volcarona, Choice Scarf Excadrill, Gengar, Alakazam, Nidoking lacking Thunderbolt, Gyarados, and Hydreigon. It fills a very similar role to Gastrodon, the main differences being Mantine having access to Defog and dealing with different threats.

• Omastar: B
  

This is another Pokemon I love to use in rain. It is the hardest hitting rain sweeper. Its Hydro Pump can 2HKO Blissey after rocks in rain and can even run a set with Knock Off to beat Chansey. If you look at some damage calculations, you'll be wondering why you haven't used this thing sooner. Sadly, with the rise of Mantine and Gastrodon, as well as the nerf to Talonflame, Omastar is harder to use than ever before.

• Jellicent: B-
  

This used to be a pretty reliable spin blocker, but with the addition of Pursuit and many new Pokemon (mainly Greninja and Rotom-Wash), there really isn't any place for it anymore. It does have access to reliable recovery and Will-O-Wisp, but its bulk is just too low to be able to switch into neutral attacks from things like Life Orb Excadrill and Life Orb Garchomp. However, right now, in Gen 6 OU, there is a rise in usage of Colbur Berry Jellicent to better take on dark types. This could be something to consider in PRO with the addition of berries, but the downside to this is losing Leftovers recovery.

• Ninetales: B-
  
• Smeargle: B
  

Scarf Spore OP, that's all.

• Shuckle: B-
  
• Talonflame: B
  
• Torkoal: B-
  

[Jorogumo]

I've taken into account all the previous comments:

• Kingdra: A-
  
• Weavile: A+
  
• Hippowdon: B+
  
• Klefki: B+
  
• Starmie: B+
  
• Arcanine: B
  
• Feraligatr: B+
  
• Gastrodon: A-
  
• Lucario: A-
  
• Mamoswine: A-
  
• Mantine: A-
  
• Omastar: B
  
• Serperior: A-
  
• Haxorus: B+
  
• Jellicent: B-
  
• Ninetales: B-
  
• Smeargle: B
  
• Shuckle: B-
  
• Talonflame: B-
  
• Torkoal: B-
  
• Exeggutor: C+
  
• Victreebel: B-
  
• Gardevoir: C+
  

I also went ahead and moved Krookodile from B- to B due to the addition of Pursuit, which the Choice Scarf set, which is the recommended set, benefits most from.

 

I've added Tailwind and Stored Power to some sets.

[Veilsidex]

Awesome work!

[Jorogumo]

List updated.

 

Additions:

• Added a Chople Berry option to the Ferrothorn set and the Relaxed Tyranitar set.
  
• Added Quagsire to B, Uxie to B, Shedinja to B-, Registeel to C, Beheeyem to C-, Mesprit to C-, Regice to C- and Regirock to C-.
  
• Added Trick Room sets to Bronzong, Cofagrigus, Porygon2, Reuniclus and Uxie.
  

Rises:

• Moved Magneton from C- to C.
  

I decided not to include Trick Room-specific natures to Pokémon like Crawdaunt (Brave) and Dragalge (Quiet), which would use the same sets as the normal ones.

 

Discussion points:

• Azumarill: A+ or A? This might be a controversial question, especially with the rise of Dark-types/Pursuit users. Azumarill is as good as ever. However, I talked to people about discussion points and some of them thought Azumarill may or may not be worthy of being A+. The standard Choice Band set gets walled by the likes of Amoonguss, unless Azumarill is carrying the extremely rare Ice Punch and catches it on the switch. The Belly Drum set gets easily revenge killed by the common Rotom-Wash, unless Azumarill is Jolly. Personally, I think Azumarill deserves its A+ rank, but I can see why some people would question that.
  
• Gengar: A or A-? Gengar's loss of Levitate was already taken into account by its drop from to A+ to A. However, now, with the rise in usage of Pursuit trappers and Greninja, Gengar's spot in A is worth discussing. People have been running Focus Sash Gengar to survive a hit from the likes of Weavile and surprise it with Focus Blast. This set's main drawback is the lack of power provided by Life Orb, which is still Gengar's preferred item. Usually, what ends up happening is Gengar will get a kill, then get Pursuit trapped and die, whether it switches or not, because it is extremely frail. In other cases, a Choice Scarf Tyranitar can even switch in on a Shadow Ball or a Sludge Wave and proceed to eliminate Gengar without losing any Pokémon in the process. Destiny Bond is a nice addition to Gengar's arsenal. It allows it to handle Bisharp better. If you're against one, you can simply click Destiny Bond on the Sucker Punch or the Knock Off. Either you trade 1 for 1 or you end up gaining a free Focus Blast. Personally, I would leave Gengar in A for now, as it can still beat a lot of the meta, fits on many teams, and can handle stall decently well.
  
• Mew: A or A-? Mew's main asset is its unpredictability, because of how versatile it is. It can run defensive sets and offensive ones. The rise in usage of Dark-types and Pursuit users is the main reason Mew's spot in A is being questioned. Mew can pretty much singlehandedly dismantle stall. Its main sets are the physically defensive one and the specially defensive one. The physically defensive set is the one that took a harder hit from the meta changes, because of the prominence of the likes of Weavile and Greninja. It can still survive a powerful Dark-type attack and proceed to burn its foe. The specially defensive set can be used to handle Hydreigon, Nidoking, mixed Dragonite (which has very few answers), and can decently tank a Dark Pulse from Greninja. Personally, I don't know whether Mew should drop or not.
  
• Kabutops: A- or B+? Rain isn't as present as it was when Drizzle was initially added to Pelipper's arsenal. It's still common enough to worry about when building teams. Don't get me wrong, though: Kabutops is still, by far, the best physical rain abuser. This won't change until Mega Swampert is added into the game. Kabutops can beat some rain measures, such as Mantine, while it can't really beat others, such as Gastrodon. Does it belong in the same tier as Kingdra, which is now ranked in A-? Personally, I don't think so. However, does it belong in B+, where Ludicolo is? That's really debatable.
  
• Diggersby: B+ or A-? Dakivid suggested this one. Diggersby is a powerful wallbreaker that can hit hard with a Choice Band or a Life Orb and can even act as a decent revenge killer with a Choice Scarf (baiting the likes of Gengar). If a team lacks appropriate measures, it can be hard to put a stop to it. What really hurts Diggersby is its speed and the fact that it struggles to break past the likes of Skarmory.
  
• Espeon: B- or C+? The highest ranked eeveelution on the viability list took a hard hit from the rise of the Dark-types. But is it enough to warrant a drop?
  
• Xatu: B- or C+? Same situation as Espeon.
  

P.S.: Before voting on Espeon and Xatu, I'd like to remind everyone that Gardevoir is currently in C+.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Jorogumo

[Imtrippin]

Azumarill: A: It's too slow in this current meta and even if its kind of bulky it just gets 1 shot by most poison or electric moves that are being used. The band set is nice to revenge kill or punish the opponent with but the belly drum set is just complete garbage since its impossible to pull of in the current meta and rotom-wash being 1 of the few tanks that are actually used.

 

Gengar: A: I'm expecting more and more speed control with the game finally being properly coded so 350 won't be as much as it used to a long time ago and as you said, weavile and other trappers destroy it.

 

Mew: A: Sure, it's weak to dark that just increases in use but its a great defogger that beats ferrothorn if it has flamethrower, which is 1 of the more common hazard setters at the moment. Also even if the defensive/spdef defog set is the only "good" set in my opinion you still always have to play around all of its sets which is one of the reasons why it's also so strong. You already mentioned some of the threats it switches into.

 

Kabutops: B+: Rain is getting worse and worse until mega swampert is released. All weather teams are ass at the moment. It's also stopped way too easily by mach punch which also sucks. Speaking of Kingdra and Ludicolo, honestly Ludicolo deserves to be in B imo and Kingdra deserves an A- spot for being such a monster. It's definately 1 of the bigger reasons rain is playable at the moment, especially since it doesn't die to priority moves as easily.

 

Diggersby: B+: Even if I think it's fun to use it's just bad in this meta that's full of offensive mons. Unboosted quick attack wont do much and it rarely gets the time to shine vs 3-4+ faster mons if not more on every/most teams.

 

Espeon: B1: Viable eeveelution???

 

Xatu: I'd say C: It only differes espeon in speed and bulk (also has flying typing I guess). Anyway, they're both slower than weavile, scarf ttar and gren and at least Xatu can tank some hits that aren't dark moves when bold. Espeon just dies to everything physical.

 

Good work on updating the list btw. hopefully when can add tapus soon :D

[Stayfreekid]

Take all this with a grain of salt cause I haven't been able to PvP much myself lately and I'm prone to missing some details.

 

As far as azu goes I could give points either way. Its belly drum set keeps getting harder to use especially if you don't have something like screens support to back it up but it's still a monster and incredibly hard to switch into. My personal bias would point me towards putting it in A+ but I could just as easily see it in A.

 

For gengar I think you summed it up nicely, I would probably drop it to A- but it still has its main traits in being really fast hitting really hard with good coverage and having some nice utility moves although all of those are slowly becoming less potent.

 

I think kabutops is definitely better than ludicolo and overall slightly worse than kingdra but idk if that's a fair comparison cause both are the best rain monster on their respective side of the offensive spectrum so I could see them being in the same tier. You don't usually ask yourself which one of the two am I going to use cause you can just run both.

 

Diggersby is a cool Mon with great potential that I'd love to try out, until I do I don't think I can really judge it.

 

After gen 7 I'd maybe swap will o wisp for toxic on jellicent. Before it could counterstall just by using the combo of taunt and burn and the occasional scald but with the burn nerf that doesn't work as well when the opponent has lefties and I feel like toxic would make it much better at stallbreaking while still keeping the option to burn opponents with scald although a more reliable burn would help more Vs offensive Mons.

 

I'd also move smeargle up a tier. Although that's probably mostly because of my personal experience with the Mon. It's by far the best sticky web user and the only reason the playstyle is viable imo. Having access to spore only makes it easier for your setup Mons. I understand if you disagree because I'm saying this cause I had great success with my hodgepodge of a sticky web team and that was a few months ago.