Stavd Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) h.o. teams are full with priority moves (like 5 in party) and can eliminate gren much easier than stall...just check banded dnite e.speed damage...actually h.o. are the only teams that can deal with gren easily especially if it holds choice specs...the stallers gonna suffer, that s why they are complaining... the only reason i consider the possibility of banning ash - greninja is that it will make rain teams invincible, especially if it is paired with mega swampert and manaphy... Edited October 10, 2020 by stavd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzz Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilprotagonist Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, stavd said: h.o. teams are full with priority moves (like 5 in party) and can eliminate gren much easier than stall...just check banded dnite e.speed damage...actually h.o. are the only teams that can deal gren easily especially if it holds choice specs...the stallers gonna suffer, that s why they are complaining... the only reason i consider the possibility of banning ash - greninja is that it will make rain teams invincible, especially if it is paired with mega swampert and manaphy... The only piority in current pro that out-piroity/speed gren is espeed. Which pretty much limit it to dnite and lucario unless i missed a mon. What make bb-gren destroy h.o esp is the ability to being able to block the espeed with your team-mates and then send it out with tempo with u-turn/volt switch etc, while getting a guarantied kill or 2 every time gren comes out, because i guarantie you offense team will quickly run out of mons that can tank a dark pulse/hydro pump from 400 speced atk. Thats the principle of how balance works, you have both sword and shield.. So yeah this plays into the strenght of what balanced teams want to do. Now how will stall suffer? the generall rule is that stall either 6-0 or lose 0-6 cause once a piece is broken rest falls easily. But the hardest part is the first crack. And as i mentioned before literly all stall runs chansey which are the one and pretty much only hard counter to bb gren that is a top tier poke (spedef poli kinda wack). Another point is that every stall team needs to have hazard controll. So basicly the 2 strong point people been arguing over bb gren, spikes and power are effectivly countered by the natural strong point of the stall architecture. If stall do fall its because alot of what his team mates can do to keep the pressure there. So while bb gren could for sure do some work when his team mates somehow wear chansey down/keep the spikes up, its not nearly as much as bb gren would do to teams not designed to tank a 399 speed 400 speatk speced atks. And yes bb gren is a good addition to rain. And ya know rain with a mega pert and bb gren is pretty good into stall...and pretty much everyting else aswell. And tbh i have not seen it enough to jump the fence to any side yet. I do firmly believe this poke is fit for balanced team. extremely good against offensive teams, decent against defensive teams and it looks hela cool with that scarf around his neck, up until you relies that its his tongue and then you can not unseen that and your life is ruined. Edited October 10, 2020 by EvilProtagonist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavd Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, EvilProtagonist said: The only piority in current pro that out-piroity/speed gren is espeed. Which pretty much limit it to dnite and lucario unless i missed a mon. What make bb-gren destroy h.o esp is the ability to being able to block the espeed with your team-mates and then send it out with tempo with u-turn/volt switch etc, while getting a guarantied kill or 2 every time gren comes out, because i guarantie you offense team will quickly run out of mons that can tank a dark pulse/hydro pump from 400 speced atk. Thats the principle of how balance works, you have both sword and shield.. So yeah this plays into the strenght of what balanced teams want to do. Now how will stall suffer? the generall rule is that stall either 6-0 or lose 0-6 cause once a piece is broken rest falls easily. But the hardest part is the first crack. And as i mentioned before literly all stall runs chansey which are the one and pretty much only hard counter to bb gren that is a top tier poke (spedef poli kinda wack). Another point is that every stall team needs to have hazard controll. So basicly the 2 strong point people been arguing over bb gren, spikes and power are effectivly countered by the natural strong point of the stall architecture. If stall do fall its because alot of what his team mates can do to keep the pressure there. So while bb gren could for sure do some work when his team mates somehow wear chansey down/keep the spikes up, its not nearly as much as bb gren would do to teams not designed to tank a 399 speed 400 speatk speced atks. And yes bb gren is a good addition to rain. And ya know rain with a mega pert and bb gren is pretty good into stall...and pretty much everyting else aswell. (kinda make u think bb gren is to op currently) gren will find it difficult even to evolve against h.o...breloom (mach punch), lucario , drago (e.speed), azumarill that tanks at leat one hit...a set up gyara etc...h.o. teams probably will bother less...on the other hand stall cores will face a lot of pressure, especially if gren teams are designed to utilise hazards... Edited October 10, 2020 by stavd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archfndweavile Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, Grizzz said: yes yes 1 “When people get hurt, they learn to hate… When people hurt others, they become hated and racked with guilt. But knowing that pain allows people to be kind. Pain allows people to grow… And how you grow is up to you.” – Jiraiya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilprotagonist Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, stavd said: gren will find it difficult even to evolve against h.o...breloom (mach punch), lucario , drago (e.speed), azumarill that tanks at leat one hit...a set up gyara etc...h.o. teams probably will bother less...on the other hand stall cores will face a lot of pressure, especially if gren teams are designed to utilise hazards... H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilprotagonist Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, stavd said: gren will find it difficult even to evolve against h.o...breloom (mach punch), lucario , drago (e.speed), azumarill that tanks at leat one hit...a set up gyara etc...h.o. teams probably will bother less...on the other hand stall cores will face a lot of pressure, especially if gren teams are designed to utilise hazards... H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilprotagonist Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, stavd said: gren will find it difficult even to evolve against h.o...breloom (mach punch), lucario , drago (e.speed), azumarill that tanks at leat one hit...a set up gyara etc...h.o. teams probably will bother less...on the other hand stall cores will face a lot of pressure, especially if gren teams are designed to utilise hazards... H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilprotagonist Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) huh sorry for tripple post, but when i clicked submit nothing happened, so i clicked it 3 time and refreshed, and i guess it just tripple posted. Ff a mod see this please delete 2 of them and this post xD. PS: Funny thing this is a pvp bug in pro as well. I clicked on my move nothing happened so i clicked it again. then suddenly my next turn and the turn after is auto determinated to apply those moves i clicked. Edited October 10, 2020 by EvilProtagonist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavd Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, EvilProtagonist said: H.o by the very design its suppose to aggresivly trade down poke until the last man standing. STall by the very design suppose to avoid trade and bloodshed until the last player standing. H.o 0 recovery to hazard stall. multiple recovery option deisgned for the long con I find it very hard to swallow the argument that its harder to find a kill against ho compared to crack a nut designed to not crack. against h.o. gren ,even evolved, won t be able to do much, especially against teams that run drago, breloom, gyara, azu...also it won t survive enough rounds to have the luxury to apply hazzards...the same time against stall, if utilised correctly can wear out the opponent core and hit the final blow if necessary...that s the main reason h.o. players dont even bother to comment here, whilst players that use stall cores are all against ash greninja...i have to make clear though, i am not against the ban...cause under certain circumstances rain teams will become invincible with ash greninja... Edited October 10, 2020 by stavd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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