In-depth spawn changes and adjustements proposition for the EV areas in the Safari of Kanto.

[Fafouney]

  Introduction

 

  Hello to everybody ,

 

  If you spend thousand of hours EVing in the EV areas located in the Safari of Kanto, this one is for you.

 

With the recent changes, you neither can catch any Pokemon nor their shiny form in it anymore. This is actually the perfect opportunity to be proposing some spawn changes and adjustments.

Funny fact, you can still encounter event themed Pokemon but...

 

Source : 

 

 

 

 

  Before digging into the problems, I must say that I'll make it so spawns and adjustements proposition will satisfy as much as possible people who :

- 1v1 each time the Pokemon by not having enough Pokemon to optimize with the multiple-switching strategy or by just not knowing this tip until now.

- Do the multi-switching strategy (explained in the Problems part).

 

And don't worry ! There will be TL;DR along the way as there is a big quantity of information to support what I'll be saying. Feel free to read entirely or not, this choice is yours to make.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

You can no longer catch any Pokemon whatever they are at the EV areas in the Safari of Kanto.

Perfect opportunity to be proposing some spawn changes and adjustments.

Propositions will have to satisfy people using the multi-switching strat (explained in the TL;DR of Problems part) or doing regular 1v1s.

 

---

Problems with the actual Safari EV spawns.

 

  To optimize EVs yield and time, people tend to :

1- Fast lvling up, up to 60ish, to get 4 useful moves with a ton of PP, outspeeding current Safari EV spawns while holding a Macho Brace and OHKO them even with resistances without bothering about calcs.

2- Switch as much as possible up to 5 times if you can, to give 6 EVs (3 x 2 thanks to Macho Brace) to your 6 Pokemon in one encounter, saving several minutes for each Pokemon.

However, it's when you start multi-switching instead of 1v1ing that things can get spicy because of some Pokemon traits said below :

 

  Current problematic Pokemon in the EV areas :

 

Vileplume for SPATK :                                                                      

Moves : Poison Powder.

Ability : Effect Spore (H.A).

 

  Its capacity to poison many of your Pokemon either by its Move or Ability is greatly discouraging. It's close to impossible to avoid it when multi-switching.

 

Poliwrath for DEF :

Moves : Hypnosis / Double Slap.

Ability : Water Absorb.

 

  The award for the biggest annoyance goes to Poliwrath. Firstly, the amount of time wasted with its Hypnosis and Double Slap spam either to slower Pokemon than it like Slowpoke needing DEF EVs or when multi-switching will make you jump off your chair ! You probably never attempted to multi-switching for the 2 previous mentionned reasons to keep your sanity. Secondly, Water Absorb, with 159 different Water type Pokemon ranked number 1 including 73 single Water type, there are few weak of those single type that only learn 90% of Water type moves by lvling up and 10% of weak physical/special Coverage. You don't wanna pay egg moves / tms... to have a strong coverage JUST for a lvl 10 Poliwrath. Yes I detest this Pokemon, anything could be better than this twisted tadpole !

 

Nidoqueen for HP :

Moves : Poison Sting / Double Kick.

Ability : Poison Point.

 

  Same comments made for Vileplume. Plus, Double Kick on Pokemon with Iron Barbs or Rough Skin is a pure waste of time.

 

Pidgeot for SPD :

Moves : Sand Attack / Quick Attack.

Ability : None.

 

  If you're unlucky, Pidgeot can decide to spam Sand Attack, making you miss few times on the last Pokemon when multi-switching. Why would hax be there when you just want to EVing in peace ? As for Quick Attack, an unavoidable waste of time for Electric type Pokemon as Electric type resists its Flying attack Gust and therefore is forced to use its priority move. For Rock and Steel type I've tested it, it always does Gust.

 

  So the question is, why should we get punished for trying to optimize our gameplay ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?

 

The arguing for the current problematic spawns sounds like I dropped too much salt, but think like this. Having the scenarios above repeating themselves again and again, your time wasted for something that now could be avoided. You would get tired of this someday and would like to make a suggestion to change those spawns, especially this c-u-r-s-e-d Poliwrath !

 

As for ATK and SPDEF current spawn that I didn't talk about above, I'll say the possible improvements if there are any in the Solutions part. Note that they are the least concerned, for the reason that both are already 1v1 and multi-switching friendly.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

Multi-switching is to switch up to 5 times if possible on 1 encountered Pokemon to optimize EV yield, we're talking about several minutes saved for each Pokemon.

SPATK, DEF, HP and SPD current EV spawns in the Safari of Kanto are annoying for multi-switching and slow Pokemon mainly because of irritating moves and Abilities.

We're getting punished for trying to optimize our gameplay and time while multi-switching in those 4 spawns. It should be the opposite.

ATK and SPDEF actual spawns are already 1v1 and multi-switching friendly, we could still look at it trying to upgrade both tho.

 

  The current SPDEF spawn location :

 

  On the other hand, I find sad that the SPDEF spawn is in the same area as SPD and ATK.

 

  I'll be proposing solutions now for both cases.

 

---

Solutions

  For spawn changes :

 

  The plan :

 

1 : I'm gonna pick on a list the best Pokemon which gives 3 EVs in one stat from Gen 1 to Gen 8 among all catchable Pokemon in PRO.

https://pokemondb.net/ev/all => For exemple, I'll have to click on the HP slot twice for it to show me in priority Pokemon giving 3 HP EVs.

 

First results would be displayed as followed :

 

2 : The chosen one for each EV will be selected depending on its :

 

    #1 priority :

    Moveset at lvl 10 (no priority, status and multi-hit moves + offensively, the least type interactions + the most immunities, the better it gets).

     => Only regular single-hit, boosting, decreasing moves. Single-hit Normal type moves with no side effect, Accuracy drop or Evasion raise moves being the absolute best. Immunities are useful to avoid annoying moves or forcing the AI to do a weaker one.

     => In #1, since we can't change a Pokemon learnset via lvling up. In addition, you don't want it to start spamming Sand Attack, Poison Powder and such while doing the multi-switching strat.

 

     #2 priority :

     Abilities (no Intimidate, Sturdy, Sand Stream, Speed Boost, Water Absorb...)

     => Abilities that are not triggering once entering the field, not triggering at each turn or not granting immunities / survivability are welcome.

     => In #2, Abilities that trigger when entering the field cannot be skipped anymore. So if you unfortunately have only 1 Pokemon which needs EVing, you'll feel the time loss. Also, we don't wanna get punished for doing the multi-switching strat for exemple with a Sand Stream user.

 

     #3 priority :

     Type on the defensive side (the least weaknesses / resistances / immunities, the better it gets).

     => No super effective / not super effective / immune extra dialogue upon fainting a Pokemon.

     => The majority of Pokemon naturally learn coverage by lvling up. As a result, extra dialogue are easier to avoid, that's why it's in #3.

 

     #4 priority :

     Speed stat at lvl 10 (the lowest speed stat, the better it gets).

     => To not be overlooked for slow defensive / Trick Room oriented Pokemon (hello Ferroseed, Slowpoke, Solosis...) which are slower even at lvl 60 than any current lvl 10 Pokemon in the Safari when holding a Macho Brace. Sometimes, they can still outspeed them with rng. Unlike Munchlax and Shuckle which cannot be helped with their 5 Base Spd (9 Spd at lvl 60 with 1 Spd Iv + a -Spd Nature).

     => Generally, you'll make it so you can bypass the Spd problem by having at least 1 faster Pokemon in need of the same EVs doing the multi-switching strategy and in the end greatly optimize your time. That's why it's in #4.

 

Speed at lvl 10 with 31 Ivs + a positive Spd Nature :

SPD : Pidgeot => 30 Spd, >60 Spd to 100% outspeed.

HP : Nidoqueen => 25 Spd, >50 Spd to 100% outspeed.
ATK : Victreebel => 24 Spd, >48 Spd to 100% outspeed.

DEF : Poliwrath => 24 Spd, >48 Spd to 100% outspeed.
SPDEF : Dustox => 23 Spd, >46 Spd to 100% outspeed.
SPATK : Vileplume => 19 Spd, >38 Spd to 100% outspeed.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

1- Using this link https://pokemondb.net/ev/all to find the best Pokemon giving 3 EVs in each stat.

It needs to have been catchable in PRO.

 

2- 4 selection critera, #1 being the highest priority and so on :

#1 => Moveset at lvl 10

#2 => Abilities

#3 => Defensive type

#4 => Speed at lvl 10

 

  The ideal champion for each EV :

                                                   

  So, with all of that said, what would be the perfect punching ball champion with the priorities mentionned above if we get to be lucky it exists ?

 

A Normal type Pokemon :

- #1 : Only offensive single-hit Normal type moves with no side effects which mean neutral on everything else it will hit except Ghost / Rock / Steel type, boosting moves excluding evasion raise / decreasing moves except accuracy drop.

- #2 : Abilities that don't trigger in any way or those which only trigger under few circumstances to easily bypass those.

- #3 : 1 Ghost immunity, 1 Fighting weakness. Only 2 type not neutral, making easily avoidable the extra "super effective" "immune" message. An instant 10/10 given for the #3 with 2 type.

- #4 : Small base Spd.

 

Moreover, in terms of the least affected type, Normal type goes without equal thanks to its traits to be :

- Offensively => Super effective on 0 Pokemon , Ghost immunity, Rock and Steel resistances.

- Defensively => Ghost immunity and Fighting weakness.

In total only 4 type concerned ! It's a blessing !

 

  Before you say why not adding legendaries everywhere ? My answer will be :

- Their Moveset is average and always spoiled because of their Ability.

- 80% of them have an Ability that triggers immediatly and further (Pressure being the most noticable one and an irritating PP waste).

- 30% of them have an insane dual typing giving them too much resistances, some weaknesses and few immunities.

- They are 90% of the time >=90 base Spd.

- Their Bulk is ridiculously good, they would be able to tank a x4 resisted move, even at lvl 10, if a Pokemon wouldn't have other choices.

- You will feel frustration for not being able to catch it, especially if it wasn't released in the game yet.

 

So, now I selected THE Pokemon for each EV which will meet most of the requirements detailed above and compared them with the actual spawn. In addition, there may have multiple promising champions for each EV in order to replace the actual spawn. Indeed, I had to analyze all of them to tie-break and selecting the best one in my opinion. Also, I won't talk about every Pokemon, you see, by simply looking at their Moveset or Abilities, you can easily tell they're already out of the competition.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

- The best we wish for each priority :

#1 => Moveset at lvl 10 => 4 type interactions for single-hit Normal type moves or innofensive one excluding accuracy drop and evasion raise moves being the absolute best.

#2 => Abilities => No Abilities that trigger on their own. Those that rely on specific activation can be tolerated if easily avoidable.

#3 => Defensive type => Normal type, only 2 type interactions, the best number out there among all type.

#4 => Speed at lvl 10 => The lowest possible to give some love to slow defensive and Trick Room oriented Pokemon.

- Legendaries will be ignored.

- Selecting the chosen one for each EV meeting the most selection criteria said above. Tie-break will be sometimes necessary.                                              

 

  Analyses :

 

Caption in the spoilers :

Excellent

Average

Bad

 

2 champions for ATK :

Spoiler

 

Conkeldurr (Bide I hate you !)

  In the Jangmo-o Outbreak dated 02/20/2022, everything changed. I'll let you taking a look at why I was enthusiastic for Conkeldurr before having discovered the horrors of Bide and in the end focused my attention on Eelektross.

Spoiler

Conkeldurr at lvl 10                                                                        

- Bide / Leer / Focus Energy / Pound

- Clean Abilities.

- Rock / Dark / Bug resistances, Psychic / Flying / Fairy weaknesses, 6 type.

- Max 18 Spd.

 

- Only 1 offensive Normal type move which is Pound, 2 type interactions + 1 positive Ghost immunity leading to perfection on this side or almost... Indeed, Bide is currently bugged, it shouldn't do damages (see 1st video) but is still an irritating +1 priority move for single fights when you're not using the multi-switching strat. Focus Energy isn't that annoying, it still got 3 other moves it can use. I don't perfectly know about how the AI chooses its move, but if it prioritizes Pound, 9/10, otherwise 5/10 for 1v1.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 6 type interactions out of 18, 8/10.

 

- >36 Spd needed to 100% outspeed. Actually marvelous, since Trick Room slowest abusers using ATK like Marowak-Alolan / Ursaring / Crawdaunt / Conk pre-evolution Spd is between 42 and 53 at lvl 60 with 1 Iv in Spd + a -Spd Nature, 9/10.

 

Bide bug

 

I'm actually broke, to see if Jangmo-o spams Bide, I tested few turns in its Outbreak as it possesses a Moveset similar to Conk's one...

Moveset : Protect / Leer / Tackle / Bide

By watching this, I must say that Conk's chances to make it through are inexistant, life is PAIN .

 

Eelektross

Spoiler

- Headbutt / Coil / Ion Deluge / Thrash (according to PRO's given Moveset, on PokemonDB the order was different)

- Clean Ability.

- Electric / Flying / Steel resistances, 0 weaknesses ! 3 type.

- Max 19 Spd.

 

- 2 negative type interactions and 1 positive Ghost immunity. It will spam Thrash as it's its most powerful move, making between 1-2% more damages than Victreebel or Conk. I think this is a good trade offer for both 1v1 and multi-switching, for the reasons that with 14 neutral type interactions 1v1 is healthy and you'll faint it first turn anyway. With 6 Pokemon you'll be able to tank its hit quite easily and reach 20 min of Safari time without spending anything.

 

-Despite Levitate granting a Ground immunity, you have 14 other neutral type you can hit it with ! 9/10.

 

- 3 type out of 18, 9.5/10.

 

- Same reasoning as Conk, Heaven for Trick Room Atk oriented Pokemon, 8.5/10.

 

Comparison with Victreebel

Spoiler

Victeebel at lvl 10

- Razor Leaf / Swallow / Spit Up / Vine Whip

- 95% clean Abilities.

- x4 Grass / Electric / Fairy / Fighting / Water resistances, Fire / Flying / Ice / Psychic weaknesses, 9 type.

- Max 24 Spd.

 

- Offensively, the Grass type is the worst to face in the Safari, 10 negative type interactions on its own ! Normal type is only giving an additional positive Ghost immunity there, as Grass type is already either super or not very effective on Rock and Steel type. In addition Spit Up extra "def dropped" line will have more chances of being seen, as Grass type is one of the easiest to resist to. We're 50% of the time sure to have either a super / not very effective or the def dropped line upon multi-switching, 5/10.

 

- Only 1/20 chance to get the "is too nervous to eat berries" extra line with Gluttony, 9/10.

 

- 9 type out of 18, 5/10.

 

- >48 Spd needed to 100% outspeed. The slowest of slowest Trick Room abusers using ATK will need more lvls, 5/10.

 

Conclusion leading to tie-break

Spoiler

We can conclude that Conk may be a good substitute to Victreebel depending on how the AI reacts. I would like to ask for a test on Conk in the ATK slot to see its behaviour. If it does too much Bide, this will become a great disadvantage for 1v1. As a result, Victreebel will have to be kept despite having a worse Moveset. However ! This was before I discovered Eelektross, it will be a better substitute, I highly recommend choosing it for the explanation I've made on its spoiler.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

We replace Victreebel with Eelektross as it is the best option.

Conkeldurr turned out to be disappointing because of Bide for 1v1s.

Eelektross' only downisde is its Thrash move for multi-switching which is the strongest, between 1-2% more damages difference than Victreebel and Conk, but still fairly manageable with 6 Pokemon.

 

2 champions for HP :

Spoiler

 

Blissey

Spoiler

Blissey at lvl 10

- Pound / Double Edge / Tail Whip / Refresh

- Clean Abilities.

- 1 Ghost immunity, 1 Fighting weakness, 2 type.

- Max 19 Spd.

 

- 2 negative and 1 positive Ghost Immunity thanks to Normal type interactions out of 18. Double Edge extra dialogue "is damaged with recoil" + the self damages are a noticable waste of time, only when multi-switching. But, I guess it's better than Nidoqueen Poison Sting spam, 6/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 2 type out of 18, 10/10.

 

- >38 Spd needed to 100% outspeed. Same analysis as Conkeldurr for Trick Room Atk oriented Pokemon. Unfortunately, we cannot do better for Spatk one like Solosis and Slowpoke with their respective 26 and 20 Spd at lvl 60 with 1 Iv in Spd + a -Spd Nature, 9/10.

 

On the other hand, too much tanky on SPDEF.

Here I took the Pokemon with the lowest base SPATK usually played as SPATKer on their final evolution stage using their worst but still usable move (at least 50 total Base Power with or without STAB) learnt via lvl up only on a lvl 10 Blissey with max SPDEF + HP Ivs + a positive SPDEF Nature :

=> 68.9 - 81% Mega Drain from lvl 60 Snivy with 0 Spatk EVs and 20 Spatk Ivs. 102.7 - 122.9% with 252 Spatk EVs.

=> 68.9 - 81% Magical Leaf from lvl 60 Ralts with 0 Spatk EVs and 20 Spatk Ivs. 102.7 - 121.6% with 252 Spatk EVs.

 

Exploud

Spoiler

Exploud at lvl 10

- Crunch / Echoed Voice / Astonish / Howl

- 99% clean Abilities.

- 1 Ghost immunity, 1 Fighting weakness, 2 type.

- Max 23 Spd.

 

- 6 negative and 1 positive (Ghost Immunity thanks to Normal) type interactions out of 18. Crunch and Astonish both super effective on Psychic and Ghost type is actually funny, since Crunch will always be favoured over Astonish for its higher Base Power. This is only the start of the meme. Indeed, you will need either a Fairy Steel, a Fairy Rock, a Rock Fighting or a Fighting Steel dual typing for it to consider using Astonish , as they resist Normal and Dark type, forcing the AI to choose a move that won't be resisted such as Astonish. Moreover, only 10 Pokemon have those dual typing => Mawile, Klefki, Magearna, Zacian-Crowned, Diancie, Carbink, Terrakion, Lucario, Zamazenta and Cobaltion. So Astonish will be pretty much inexistant ! However, if it decides to spam Echoed Voice in the worst case scenario, not a problem, you have 6 Pokemon to tank the 200 Base Power 5th hit or just faint it asap. 8/10.

 

- Soundproof not that impacful => Bug Buzz, Disarming Voice and Hyper Voice at most. You usually have 4 useful moves with a fine load of PP, so it's not a big deal, 9.5/10.    

 

- 2 type out of 18, 10/10.

 

- Same thinking as for Blissey, except that a few Trick Room Pokemon will need more lvls, 7/10.

 

Comparison with Nidoqueen

Spoiler

Nidoqueen at lvl 10

- Poison Sting / Double Kick / Tail Whip / Scratch

- Horrible Poison Point Ability for contact move users.

- Electric immunity, x4 Poison / Bug / Fairy / Fighting / Rock resistances, Ground / Ice / Psychic / Water weaknesses, 10 type.

-Max 25 Spd.

 

- 12 negative type interactions + 2 positive Steel and Ghost immunities (hello Aegislash our savior ). I've complained enough in the Problems part about Nidoqueen's Moveset, 3/10.

 

- There are still some Atk moves that don't make contact and also Spatk moves that don't at 99% of the time. But when it comes to multi-switching, being poisoned either by Poison Sting or Poison Point with the certainty that you can't avoid those is oppresive, 5/10.

 

- 10 type out of 18, 4.5/10.

 

- Same reasoning as previously for Blissey and Exploud. But with Nidoqueen, even more needed lvls for some Trick Room users, 5/10.

 

Conclusion leading to tie-break

Spoiler

Firstly, we can conclude that Blissey isn't novice friendly who lacks means to fast lvling up Spatk oriented Pokemon. Secondly, that you will be always needing to EVing Spatk before being 100% sure to OHKO it for weaker Pokemon with weaker moves usually using SPATK + HP EV Spread. But I guess it's better this way than Nidoqueen poison madness.

However, due to Exploud having a more balanced Bulk, a better Moveset for multi-switching only at the cost of possessing Soundproof, 4 more Spd and 4 more negative type interactions, I'll choose it over Blissey.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

We replace the bloody poison abuser Nidoqueen with Exploud.

Exploud has a more balanced Bulk, a better Moveset for multi-switching in term of time not wasted compared to Blissey's Double Edge.

Exploud only has Soundproof, 4 more Spd and 4 more offensive type interactions which are acceptable.

 

 

 3 champions for SPATK :

Spoiler

 

Reuniclus

Spoiler

Reuniclus at lvl 10

- Psywave / Reflect / Rollout / Snatch

- Clean Abilities.

- Fighting / Psychic resistances, Dark / Bug / Ghost weaknesses, 5 type.

- Max 15 Spd.

 

- 7 negative type interactions and 1 positive Dark immunity. The first thought that came in your mind is, "why did he put Reflect in green" ? Because, thanks to Reuniclus having only 2 resistances, it "nerfs" Reflect's utility to increase survivability, and its overall good bulk. Either you faint it in 1v1 to not give it the possibility of doing it, or, if you really don't wanna bother yourself with calcs, make it so your last Pokemon while multi-switching will hit it with a Spatk or a strong Atk move. I mean it's easily achievable to prepare for that, would you rather getting poisoned to death by Vileplume ? Hell no ! Psywave is amazing, it acts as a Psychic type attack but without its super / not effective interactions, only the Dark immunity can stop it. However, the only little downside is that it does between 5 and 15 fixed damages at lvl 10, and therefore not quite friendly to multi-switching if spammed. But the oods that it will be doing 15 damages every time are quite low and with 6 Pokemon you should be able to tank for 20 mins, 8/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 5 type out of 18, 8.5/10.

 

- Remember Solosis and its 26 Spd with 1 Iv in Spd + a -Spd Nature at lvl 60 ? It is so close to be able to 100% outspeed Reuniclus while holding a Macho Brace ! 9.5/10.

 

Samurott

Spoiler

Samurott at lvl 10

- Megahorn / Tackle / Tail Whip / Water Gun

- Clean Abilities.

- Water / Ice / Fire / Steel resistances, Grass / Electric weaknesses, 6 type.

- Max 24 Spd.

 

- 12 negative type interactions, 1 positive Ghost immunity with Tackle. The big problem is Megahorn, without it, Water and Normal type would have been fine. It would have been only 7 negative type interactions with both. Plus, Megahorn is a 120 Base Power move, it will hurt a bit when multi-switching. But I'm pretty confident you'll tank those enough to reach 20 min, 5/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 6 type out of 18, 8/10.

 

- Even Reuniclus is not 100% sure to be outspeeded by Pokemon like Solosis or Slowpoke anyway, 7/10.

 

Beautifly (Ty @g3n3r4l !)

Spoiler

Beautifly at lvl 10

- Gust (yes)

- Clean Abilities.

- Ground immunity, x4 Grass + Fighting + x2 Bug resistances, x4 Rock / Electric / Fire / Flying / Ice weaknesses, 9 type.

- Max 23 Spd.

 

- 6 negative type interactions. Gust as its only move is godlike, 9/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- Ground immunity, this type is mainly used by Physical Pokemon so it's ok.

   => x4 Fighting resistance - mainly Physical / x4 Grass + x2 Bug resistances - Mixed, this will do.

   => All weaknesses mentionned should indeed help Spatk oriented Pokemon. I'm mainly thinking about Electrike for exemple when you don't wanna pay Hidden Power Ice TM to hit Vileplume if you want to sell it. 5/10 for the amount of type interactions. But in definitive, we can rate higher than that for the convenience that Beautifly will bring overall.

 

- Max 23 Spd, it's decent, we unfortunately can't do much for Pokemon like Solosis and Slowpoke that are too slow anyway, 7.5/10.

 

Comparison with Vileplume

Spoiler

Vileplume at lvl 10

- Mega Drain / Poison Powder / Stun Spore / Aromatherapy

- Effect Spore is a pain for contact move users.

- x4 Grass / Electric / Fairy / Fighting / Water resistances, Fire / Flying / Ice / Psychic weaknesses, 9 type.

- Max 19 Spd.

 

- 10 negative type interactions with the Grass type. Threatening Poison and Paralysis while multi-switching. Funny anecdote, I've NEVER seen it doing Stun Spore, it always did Poison Powder over it, 1/10.

 

- 1/20 chance to be facing a Vileplume with Effect Spore, 30% chance to get either Paralysis, Sleep or Poison using contact moves, 5/10.

 

- 9 type out of 18, 5/10.

 

- A respectable Spd for such an irritating rafflesia, 8/10.

 

Conclusion

Spoiler

If Reuniclus's Psywave is found to be noxious for the majority of people who are multi-switching, we'll get Samurott instead. It will cost 9 more Spd, a lot of defensive and offensive type interactions. Forget about both, Beautifly is the champion we need and deserve !

 

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

Replacing Vileplume with Beautifly.

No doubt in our mind Beautifly is insane.

 

Before having seen Beautifly :

If Reuniclus's Psywave is found more annoying than anticipated for multi-switching, we will take Samurott instead.

Taking Samurott will cost 9 more Spd, a lot of offensive and defensive type interactions compared to Reuniclus.

 

 

No champion for SPDEF :

Spoiler

 

Dustox

 

Spoiler

Dustox at lvl 10

- Gust (yes)

- Clean Abilities.

- x4 Grass / x4 Fighting / Bug / Fairy / Poison resistances, Fire / Flying / Psychic / Rock weaknesses, 9 type.

- Max 23 Spd.

 

- 6 negative type interactions, only 1 move, what more to say ? 9/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

-9 type out of 18. Only downside that this Pokemon has. From my experience, I've never had any problems avoiding its dual typing interactions, still 5/10.

 

- One of the slowest from PRO's available Pokemon giving 3 Spdef EVs, 9/10.

 

Why keeping Dustox in my opinion

Spoiler

  A quick comparison with Blastoise and Ludicolo which could have been good substitutes :

- Dustox is better than both in term of Moveset.

- They all have no triggerable Abilities.

- Dustox's dual typing is the only downside, a fine sacrifice for the sake of defensive Pokemon.

- Dustox has the lowest base Spd and Spatk with a mediocre Gust attack.

- Dustox has the lowest Bulk, quite useful for defensive Pokemon which got bad offensive stats.

 

  I felt it wasn't necessary to go further into doing a spoiler for Blastoise and Ludicolo, as a quick glance is already giving the winner out of the 3.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

We keep Dustox.

It is better than Blastoise and Ludicolo in any other way.

Dustox's dual typing is the only thing that both can beat.

 

 

 1 champion for SPD  :

Spoiler

 

Jumpluff

Spoiler

Jumpluff at lvl 10

- Synthesis / Tail Whip / Tackle / Fairy Wind

- Clean Abilities.

- Ground immunity, x4 Grass / Fighting / Water resistances, x4 Ice / Fire / Flying / Poison / Rock weaknesses, 9 type.

- Max 33 Spd.

 

- 7 negative type interactions, 1 positive Ghost immunity. Nothing much to say, a fine Moveset, 7/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 9 type out of 18, 5/10.

 

- We can't deny such a trade offer ! Only 3 more Spd are nothing compared to all the benefits we'll get ! 8/10.

 

Comparison with Pidgeot

Spoiler

Pidgeot at lvl 10

- Quick Attack / Sand Attack / Tackle / Gust

- Clean Abilities.

- Ghost / Ground immunities, Bug / Grass resistances, Electric / Ice / Rock weaknesses, 7 type.

- Max 30 Spd.

 

- 6 negative type interactions, 1 VERY positive Ghost immunity. Explained in the Problems part. What I can add is that it always uses Quick Attack over Tackle, 2/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 7 type out of 18, 7/10.

 

- A fine Spd, I've 99% of the time personally never run into a Spd problem. But when I did, it was like 5 missing stats at most for slower Pokemon with a special Spread involving some Spd EVs, 9/10.

 

Conclusion

Spoiler

By taking Jumpluff, we'll be removing annoying Sand Attack and Quick Attack from Pidgeot, at the cost of adding 3 more Spd, few offensive and defensive type interactions. Ima call it worth it !

 

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

Replacing Pidgeot with Jumpluff.

It'll remove frustrating Sand Attack and Quick attack from Pidgeot.

It will cost 3 more Spd, few defensive and offensive type interactions.

 

 

  Ladies and gentlemen, you've been waiting for this moment ! On this day, we'll gonna write PRO's History ! In all seriousness, it's time to take down Poliwrath ! Due to the frustration that it has caused, the importance to choose the best candidate to replace it and the few available Pokemon giving 3 Def EVs, I'll be covering every last of them. Note that promising champions will have a detailed spoiler as usual, as for the few others, I'll only be saying what immediatly dissuaded me to go further with them. This was harder to choose right. I had to make more concessions than usual.

1 champion for DEF :

Spoiler

 

Klinklang

Spoiler

Klinklang at lvl 10

- Charge / Gear Up / Magnetic Flux / Vice Grip

- Clean Abilities.

- Poison immunity, Bug / Dragon / Fairy / Flying / Grass / Ice / Normal / Psychic / Rock / Steel resistances, Fighting / Fire / Ground weaknesses, 14 type.

- Max 28 Spd.

 

- 2 negative type interactions and 1 positive Ghost immunity with Vice Grip. Charge could be annoying when multi-switching, but you'll have prepared a Pokemon to faint it easily hitting on its defense, 9/10.

 

- No triggerable Abilities, 10/10.

 

- 14 type out of 18, from the best defensive type of the game without any surprises ! We'll be seeing more often the not very / super effective messages. But I guess the trade can be considered, we'll have to take a Pokemon that hits on one of the 4 neutral type if we wanna optimize while finally being able to multi-switching in peace for Def EVs. 1/10 as Fairy Steel combo is even better defensively than regular Steel.

 

- It's faster than Poliwrath yes. But it only has Vice Grip, perfect for slow defensive Pokemon. 0 damages will be dealt to them and as a result will compensate additional Spd from Klinklang, 5/10.

 

Like Blissey, I need to go deeper this time because of Klinklang's OP Steel type. I have to see if it's possible for the weakest defensive Pokemon in need of Def EVs hitting on either Atk or Spatk to constantly OHKO it by including resisted moves with a respectable Base Power. I found Swablu, the perfect test subject for Spatk and Ferroseed for Atk.

 

Why Swablu for Spatk ?

- 40 base Spatk.

- 60 Base Power STABed Round.

- Can be played Relaxed with 100ish or more Def EVs investment.

111.4 - 134.2% resisted 60 Base Power STABed Round from lvl 60 Relaxed Swablu with 1 Iv in Spatk vs Careful Klinklang with 31 Ivs in Spdef and Hp.

 

If we manipulate the Base Power of Round and Swablu's Spatk Ivs to test the limits not to be crossed :

 

100 - 120% resisted 40 Base Power STABed Round from lvl 60 Relaxed Swablu with 31 Ivs in Spatk vs Careful Klinklang with 31 Ivs in Spdef and Hp.

Going under 31 Ivs in Spatk with a 40 Base Power STAB move won't be 100% OHKOing it anymore.

 

100 - 120% resisted 50 Base Power STABed Round from lvl 60 Relaxed Swablu with 7 Ivs in Spatk vs Careful Klinklang with 31 Ivs in Spdef and Hp.

Going under 7 Ivs in Spatk with a 50 Base Power STAB move won't be 100% OHKOing it anymore.

 

Why Ferroseed for Atk ?

- 50 base Atk.

- 50 Base Power STABed Metal Claw.

- Played Impish / Relaxed either Full Def or 88 EVs in it.

 100 - 120% resisted 50 Base Power STABed Metal Claw from lvl 60 Relaxed / Impish Ferrossed with 10 Ivs in Atk vs Impish Klinklang with 31 Ivs in Def and Hp.

Going under 10 Ivs in Atk and you won't be OHKOing it 100% of the time. Quite fair to be honest, I expected worse.

 

With all of that said, we can see that 50 Base Power STABed moves used with 40 base Spatk and 50 base Atk are the limits not to be crossed for your convenience. Logically speaking, every other moves with same Base Power + STAB or 75 Base Power without STAB used with Pokemon having greater offensive stats would be able to take down Klinklang.

 

 

Those which couldn't be selected

Spoiler

  Format used :

 

      Pokemon

  1 : What discouraged me.

• Moves : (why)
• Abilities : (why)
• Defensive type : (why)
• Spd : (why)

  2 : (Why) so in short for each.

 

---

Kommo-o 

• Bide : Remember the Jangmo-o video ? Not taking any chance for Bide spam.
• Bulletproof : Protect from 25 moves including good ones like Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Aurasphere, Focus Blast, Seed Bomb, Weather Ball and Gyroball.
• Dragon Fighting : 12 type interactions.
• Max 27 Spd : Could be better.

 

---

Chesnaught

• Hammer Arm / Vine Whip : Super effective on slow Pokemon like Rhyhorn and hurts / Super effective on Slowpoke with decent damages.
• Bulletproof : 1/20 chances to get it, but better avoiding it.
• Grass Fighting : 12 type interactions.
• Max 22 Spd : Bold lvl 60 Slowpoke with 31 Ivs in Spd is 4 Spd close to be 100% outspeeding it while holding a Macho Brace.

 

---

Metagross

• Hammer Arm / Magnet Rise : Hammer Super effective on Rhyhorn and hurts / Ground Immunity on a Steel type will be a pain for Ground type Pokemon with average coverage.
• Clean, nothing else to say.
• Psychic Steel : 14 type interactions, ridiculously bad.
• Max 24 Spd : Almost as good as Chesnaught but still not enough.

 

---

Aggron + Golem + Alolan Golem

 

S-T-U-R-D-Y

We don't do that here.

Cerulean Cave traumatized me enough with Sturdy on Gravelers, no more !

Coin flipping for every OHKO no thanks !                                                                                                                     

 

Comparison with Poliwrath

Spoiler

- Submission / Circle Throw / Double Slap / Hypnosis

- Water Absorb.

- Water immunity 45% of the time, Bug / Dark / Fire / Ice / Rock / Steel resistances, Electric / Fairy / Flying / Grass / Psychic weaknesses, 12 type !

- Max 24 Spd.

 

- I've pourred enough salt in the Problems part, you got my point, 1/10.

 

- No need to repeat myself here, see Problems part, 5/10.

 

- 12 type out of 18, 3/10.

 

- Its speed is problematic for heavy defensive slow Pokemon like Rhyhorn, Slowpoke, forcing us to use gimmicks such as Toxic and Flame Orb to avoid the Hypnosis. Thankfully they are few in this situation, 6/10.

 

Conclusion

Spoiler

So in definitive we should take Klinklang. I know its Steel type and additional Spd are repelling at first, but forced to acknowledge that those are the best concessions we have access to by comparing with everyone. Moreover, Klinklang has the most friendly Moveset of them all for slow defensive Pokemon. Furthemore, we've seen on its spoiler that its Steel type is fairly manageable even with resisted moves, at the cost of seeing more often the not very / super effective lines.

 

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

Replacing the cursed tadpole with Klinklang.

The scales pros vs cons turned out to be in favor of Klinklang.

Klinklang is the most friendly for 1v1 and enables multi-switching option despite its Steel type and additional Spd.

It has the best Moveset of them all, convenient for slow defensive Pokemon 1v1ing it.

When multi-switching, you can prepare yourself in advance, having your last Pokemon which easily faints it hitting on its Def no matter which type interactions for its Steel type.

 

 

  For the current SPDEF spawn location :

 

Spawns and Berry trees swap

Spoiler

 

Actual SPDEF spot located at the top left corner when entering the first EV area.

 

Current SPATK spot located at the top right corner when entering the second EV area.

 

  If we swap those 2 spawns and Berry trees, the first area will truly become the Offensive EV area and the second one the Defensive EV area. Way less travels will be needed between the 2 areas, for the reason that the majority of Pokemon have 252 maxed EVs in 2 stats and 6 remaining EVs somewhere else. Even for Pokemon with special Spreads, having 2 distinctive EV areas is quite convenient.

If you need power and speed, you're going to the Offensive EV area. If you need Bulk, you're going to the Defensive EV area. Doesn't it sound good ?

 

Npc dialogue adjustements after the swap

Spoiler

 

For the first EV area

 

First dialogue, "Special Attack-" instead of Special Defense-

 

Second dialogue, "Special Defense-" instead of Special Attack-

 

 

For the second EV area

 

First dialogue, "Special Defense-" instead of Special Attack-

 

Second dialogue, "Special Attack-" instead of Special Defense-

 

 

---

 

  How I'll increase the chances of this suggestion to be considered :

 

  I've heard about Devs looking for more ways of money sink, so here we go. 2500 Pokedollars instead of 2000 when having taken the Safari Pass to enter in the EV areas. Let me explain first before yelling  ! If the spawns get their upgrade, the price should theoretically be going up as the proposed services will get better, right ? I think people won't mind paying a bit more for an overall better service. If this bothers you, don't hesitate writting about it .

 

  For the scenario, we can say that due to alarming numbers reported to the CEO managing each Safari, he/she decided to upgrade their EV areas in the Safari of Kanto, as there were less and less trainers using those, leading to a small % of profits. They're sure to be taking the right decision of increasing the entry price, as they previously hired analysts who found the best Pokemon to replace the current spawns, meeting most of the trainers' expectations. The expectations we talked about in the "Analyses" part of each EV spawn.

 

TL;DR

Spoiler

Devs looking for more ways of money sink

=> 2500 Pokedollars instead of 2000 for the entry price in the EV areas after having taken the Safari Pass.

A better service deserves to be payed more.

 

---

   

  Now that I argued, is this suggestion feasible ?

 

  I feel it will be an easy and fast task for :

 

- The Spawn Editor for spawn changes and for the swap of SPDEF and SPATK spawns.

- The Content Scripters for dialogue adjustements (due to SPDEF and SPATK spawns swap).

- The Mappers to swap the 2 Berry trees close to SPDEF and SPATK spawns.

- The Devs to introduce the new money sink (from 2000 to 2500 Pokedollars to enter in the EV areas after having bought the Safari Pass).      

 If this suggestion is accepted of course .

                                                                                       

Now that Pokemon at EV areas in the Safari of Kanto are no longer catchable and shiny locked, this suggestion won't cause any trouble to the economy and will only be destined to greatly improve EVing conditions for 1v1 and multi-switching.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

---

 

  As for the community benefits, It will be a GREAT quality of life change.

 

Going through EVing with LESS pain.

People will surely be willing to EVing more with some positive changes . By doing so, they willl contribute to keep the economy going as there will be more Pokemon in the market waiting to be lvled up and being sold at the end. Everyone gains something out of this suggestion.

              

---

  Thank you for reading ! If you spot any mistakes, don't hesitate telling those ! 

If there is something that you didn't understand, share your doubts and I'll try to answer as best as I can.

 

Kind Regards

 

Fafouney

Edited April 19, 2022 by Fafouney
Added Beautifly in the SPATK Spoiler.

[G3n3r4l]

+1, read it all, the location change at the end would prove quite useful, as being able to get speed and the respective attack in the same area would be nice. All in all well formatted, i think the change for HP should be Exploud, for the sole reason that Blissey is a pain. 

When it comes to physical attack, your options listed are Conk and Eelektross, for this i also agree that the Eel is the better decision because of defensive typing, along with the fact of who will be training there for which pokes. As we know, fighting is resistant to bug, rock, and dark type, two of which are primarily used on physical attackers, and bug type which also has Scizor. Which as a result would make grinding those types resistant to it a lot more difficult. However when it comes to Eelektross, electric type only resists steel, flying, and itself, electric, of which two of those types are primarily used for special attackers, and the last one is steel. The only other issue arrising with Eelektross is Levitate, which does remove it's only weakness, but as you mentioned, it can be hit by almost every other type flawlessly.

 

Personally, i believe neither of the two would be better for special attack for the same general reasons as above, Reuniclus is resistant to psychic, who primarily uses special attack, this however is contradicted by the fact that it is also weak to ghost, who also is a well known special attack user. Water at the same time is problematic as it resists ice, water and fire, three other very well known spatk types. This is where i would like to introduce Beautifly, it does have one painful move as poison sting, but shouldn't be used much since it has a low base power compared to it's other moves like gust, tackle, and bug bite. Beautifly has three weaknesses, fighting, a physical type, bug, a mixed type, and grass, a special type, the grass resistance is however outmatched by it's ice, fire, flying, and electric weaknesses, which would make ev training for those well known special attackers much simpler. This is why i believe that Beautifly is the best answer for special attack.

 

 

[Deita]

This would be a great quality of life improvement, well thought through as well.

+1

[Fafouney]

3 hours ago, g3n3r4l said:

+1, read it all, the location change at the end would prove quite useful, as being able to get speed and the respective attack in the same area would be nice. All in all well formatted, i think the change for HP should be Exploud, for the sole reason that Blissey is a pain. 

When it comes to physical attack, your options listed are Conk and Eelektross, for this i also agree that the Eel is the better decision because of defensive typing, along with the fact of who will be training there for which pokes. As we know, fighting is resistant to bug, rock, and dark type, two of which are primarily used on physical attackers, and bug type which also has Scizor. Which as a result would make grinding those types resistant to it a lot more difficult. However when it comes to Eelektross, electric type only resists steel, flying, and itself, electric, of which two of those types are primarily used for special attackers, and the last one is steel. The only other issue arrising with Eelektross is Levitate, which does remove it's only weakness, but as you mentioned, it can be hit by almost every other type flawlessly.

 

Personally, i believe neither of the two would be better for special attack for the same general reasons as above, Reuniclus is resistant to psychic, who primarily uses special attack, this however is contradicted by the fact that it is also weak to ghost, who also is a well known special attack user. Water at the same time is problematic as it resists ice, water and fire, three other very well known spatk types. This is where i would like to introduce Beautifly, it does have one painful move as poison sting, but shouldn't be used much since it has a low base power compared to it's other moves like gust, tackle, and bug bite. Beautifly has three weaknesses, fighting, a physical type, bug, a mixed type, and grass, a special type, the grass resistance is however outmatched by it's ice, fire, flying, and electric weaknesses, which would make ev training for those well known special attackers much simpler. This is why i believe that Beautifly is the best answer for special attack.

 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback G3n. I've looked into Beautifly as you suggested, it turns out to be better than you anticipated !

 

This is its actual Moveset used on PRO. I had checked its Moveset on PokemonDB and missed it !

This would have spared me to argue about Reuniclus and Samurott .

 

  So in short :

 

- Gust as its only move is godlike.

- No annoying Abilities.

- Ground immunity, this type is mainly used by Physical Pokemon so it's ok.

   => x4 Fighting resistance - mainly Physical / x4 Grass + x2 Bug resistances - Mixed, this will do.

   => All weaknesses you've mentionned should indeed help those Pokemon. I'm mainly thinking about Electrike for exemple when you don't wanna pay Hidden Power Ice TM to hit Vileplume if you want to sell it.

- Max 23 Spd, it's decent, we unfortunately can't do much for Pokemon like Solosis and Slowpoke that are too slow anyway.

 

With all of that said, I support your idea of choosing Beautifly for SPATK spawn.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Fafouney
Forgot to add the Spd part

[Flamingaegis]

Really deep search of improving this annoying Ev training zone, i really hope Devs will take a look on that ! Awesome suggestion

[Regardsombre]

Très fort, @Bhimoso i guess it's ur job now 

 

 

Maxime Gpalu

[Smokincatcher]

+1 Very nice work on this fafouney, i dont ev train often but like u said some pokémons there can be annoying, some improvment cant be a bad thing especially with that nice post you made all the thinking part

For the money sink thing i dont think that would change anything, ofc we old player wont mind, but beginners would maybe idk, a good money sink would be a way to make biggest wallet players spend their money

[Pinklax]

+1 This would be a great quality of life improvement even if im not doing my evs myself since a while but im pretty sure my slave daycarer (fafouney) would love this change

[Starlight]

+1, I think devs really should take a look and consider all of this, or at the very least for the swap between spatk area and spdef area.

 

Honestly I never see it as making any sense that the spatk area is on a different map than atk and speed, while the spdef area is on a different area than def and hp.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Starlight

[Eaty]

Hello, we locked the Pokeballs exactly for this reason. I am not sure when but we do plan an EV-area spawn overhaul.