Baganha

Player name: Baganha Showdown name: Baganha Server: Gold Timezone: GMT +1 Rank on ladder: 10

fighting medusa who leads with a dnite, i lead wob it clicks dragon claw and takes 50% (aprox 280 hp) i counter it and it does about 65-70, no way dnite has that much hp to live, so im guessing multiscale halves the damage from direct moves, not from all tho since seismic toss and night shade probably work well. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Multiscale_(Ability) "Multiscale reduces damage taken from damage-dealing moves by half when at maximum HP. It does not reduce the amount of HP taken from moves that deal direct damage. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Moves_that_deal_direct_damage

Player name:Baganha Showdown name:Baganha Server:Gold Timezone:gmt0 Rank on ladder:18

Nothing huge but just had a mon behind a sub and a lando (no infiltrator or anything) used struggle and did damage to my hp bar, pretty much just ignoring the sub.

yeah dude idk dude, eric seems to be the only guy who knows what hes talking about, keep going at em champ, these stall noobheads think they can outsmart you lol, they are so wrong like hello? its clear they wanna keep their chanseys and skarms safe, they cant leave their houses without them, lol cowards, i wish i could meet them in pvp with my mach punch conk and av azus and destroy them, but they all stop pvping as soon as i go online cause they are all scared lol.

Player name: Baganha Showdown name: Baganha Server: Gold Timezone: GMT +1 Rank on Ladder: 19

s.o 800k insta 2.5m cc=400k reroll=700k auction ends 24h after first bid

Player name: baganha Showdown name: baganha Server: Gold Timezone: GMT +1 Rank on ladder: 21

start

Wow, really fast response, i appreciate the fast testing from your behalf. When it comes to other moves maybe testing defog, which sohuld be affected since it directly effects evasion and perhaps sleep talk. Ill mention other moves if i come across or think of something that might not be properly implemented.

Hello, before anything i just wanna say great job in getting everything put together, i know you guys have gotten a lot of crap for not putting out content in time, but im sure, as it stands, the majority of the community is content with what weve gotten. Im saying this because i dont wanna come out as ungrateful or mean, it is an oversight which is expected from all the work you guys have done. Essencially the ability pressure doesnt seem to work fully as intended, as moves such as stealth rock only drain 1 pp when it should do 2, i usually play stall and count the pp used my my opponents team and thats why i found out, maybe other things like leech seed or toxic might also be incorrect, thank you for your time. Sorry if its something youve noticed already, and i wasted your time

+1, seems a pretty evident passageway to take and since there isnt any transport for the safari pc, i dont see why it shouldnt be implemented

Player name: Baganha Showdown name: Baganha Server: Gold Timezone: GMT+0 Rank on ladder: 4

Hello, i decided to give some thoughts on what i think could be new nature/sets to be considered for the rankings. Starting of with a small one, i believe adamant on breloom should be considered as it offers significantly more power which ends up mattering in some interesting scenarios, taking into account the focus sash set. Jolly has it perks, outspeeding bish, since like 95%+ run adamant, outspeeding ada diggersby a well as ada dnite, outpacing the fabled 240-244 speed gap that so many mons like to creep themselves with, such as zapdos, jirachi, mew. Adamant however has a chance to ohko mamo with 2 bullet seed hits, guaranteed after rocks damage 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 292-348 (80.8 - 96.3%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 324-384 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock much higher chance to kill azu with 2 bullet seed, guaranteed after rocks damage 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 292-348 (85.3 - 101.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 324-384 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock favorable chance to kill max hp torn after rocks damage 252 Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tornadus-Therian: 236-278 (65.3 - 77%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tornadus-Therian: 258-304 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock chance to ohko excadrill with mach, guaranteed after 1 lo recoil, jolly only has about a 70% after lo recoil 252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 296-350 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 324-384 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and other stuff like guaranteing an ohko on max hp heatran at +2 with mach and having a 7/8 chance to ohko max hp ttar instead of jolly's 3/8 chance, these are just some examples where brelooms extra power comes into play. Other nature and one set that i think could be considered for the viability rankings is impish chomp and mixed lo rocks. I understand that jolly helmet chomp is nice to still be able to check faster threats like drill, dnite, max speed manaphy/jirachi as well as max speed heatran but impish brings so many benefits as well that jolly cant, that i feel like its unfair to not have it as a recomended nature for one its much better checking mons relying on priority like bish and scizor a choice locked azu. chomp has to be significantly healthy just to check a bish's sucker at +2 +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO which compared to the impish calcs +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 253-298 (60.2 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO having an average 35% is still enough to live hits like cb azu jet, mach from conk, bp from banded scizor (relying a bit on rolls form bish and scizor but rolls are in chomps favor) avoiding 2hko from banded ttar crunch and a favorable chace to not get 2hko from ada lo drill are just some other perks in investing extra bulk on chomp, not saying its better set (tho with the upcoming of megas it certainly will be) but i think it has its merits. Naive is a bit out there, and will be more effective once chomp gets his mega but since in general pro doesnt have the most reliable switches to mixed attackers unless you have a direct counter to that mon, this could prove to make chomp a rather interesting anti-meta/lure stealth rocker, with options like flamethrower/fire blast to effectively deal with phys def skarm and even spdef ferro if you pack an lo, and this is talking with minimal investment in special attack. 4 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 4 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 176-208 (50 - 59%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery The most interesting option with this set imo is actually max spatk lo with draco meteor, the idea to pretty much get up rocks with it and not let the pressure be gone from common hazard removers in the game, 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 302-356 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 291-348 (82.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 188-224 (61.8 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 242-285 (75.8 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 242-285 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Tangrowth: 338-398 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock Earthquake is still the better option as the ground stab as it hits targets like ttar, tentacruel and jirachi harder. If your name isnt togekiss, odds are youre going to have to take a lot of damage to remove the hazards. Bold manaphy - cm rest manaphy while overshadowed by its more potent setup option, tail glow, still proves to be an insane wincon given the proper support. It doesnt get much for manaphy to start setting up and basically put your opponent in a tight position, after a cm or two only mons like breelom, raikou, thundurus, serperior, ferrothorn, celebi and gastro/seismitoad are going to hold it back. I kinda of compare it to crocune, which yeah it has its advantages like better bulk and pressure depending on the situation, but manaphy is no slacker as long as you play your rain turns well with rest, its a mon thats gonna snowball much faster than suicune, which helps against more offensive mu that try to use stuff like rotom to force the rest or something. Calcs are similar to crocrune so i dont think its necessary to show mana's bulk. Thats it for now, giving a brief look, these seem to be the most important updates i believe, after the next update im sure there'll be lots to discuss. cheers

wtb amoonguss ha bold/relaxed hp fire 23+ hp and defenses, 16+spa, speed and atk can be trash.

Name: Baganha Server: gold Timezone:GMT+0 Rank on ladder:7

Username: Baganha Server: Gold Country: Portugal/GMT+0

This is interesting, i cant speak for everyone but it seems that sf landos arent really too present on the pvp ladder, which i can understand giving how dificult it can be too get an actual good one, thus far i was only able to see exclusivez having one thats was pvpable. Which probably means we'll only get an educated opinion outside of its smogon presence from the next ladder tour if lando i is allowed there. Most people have already talked about how versatile it is so i dont think anyone wants to hear it again. One thing to note about this guy is that hes one of the few mons that can excel at any matchup giving the right set, mons like these in the current meta that can be compare to lando are manaphy and arguably torn-t. The diference however, is that its much scarier for the player to scout lando than the other two, if lando-i has an oportunity to make a move, the player is put on immediate pressure, automatically, and sure some mons like banded diggersby or conk are capable of doing that as well, however they dont impact the same amount of pressure on every single playstyle like lando is capable of. Thats why its 4mss, while a setback, doesnt necessarily mean its not as destructive, as of currently, taking in regards every single set that lando can use, there is only one true counter to it being cresselia, which needless to say, isnt exactly the pinnacle of viability. So as it stands leaving the opponent guessing what set it could probably be out of all the options between rock polish, cm, scarf, rocks, 4 attacks etc. and between its ofensive coverage of focus blast, sludge wave, psychic, rock slide or even a potential hp ice, really puts the player backed into a corner, which to me sounds a bit overwhelming. I am currently leaning towards a ban but i dont have anything set in stone in my mind just yet.

"why should we restrict an already complex enough clause?" because not everything about it is necessarily broken unless proven otherwise, i assume you were fine (by fine i mean you found the rules of the clause understandable, not necessarily that you thought they were balanced) with the complex clause pro and smogon had implemented before, why should it be diferent now? "Every single time, people thought that Baton Pass would never become a problem again. They were wrong!" - this mostly applies to speed passing and if talking about recent gens(6-7) you could even argue totally, and taking into account all the discussions triggered in this thread it seems that everyones main issue seems to be about speed boost, its not a coincidence that the most dominant bp teams in pro meta were speed passing, same goes smogon after the bp clause. "If we ban Speed passing, we should ban Baton Pass altogether instead of trying to preserve some niche, irrelevant strategies that no one currently uses and that someone might eventually figure out a way to abuse" - whats is really the downside of attempting to preserve a mechanic to the fullest of its capabilities without being broken/unhealthy for the metagame? by giving more options, niche or not, youre at least enriching the meta a bit more, seems neglectful to just throw away a move for simplicity sake, you can say smogon did this but they tried to make it work, outside of sleep, baton pass is the only other mechanic they've implemented a complex clause. I dont see how it can be detrimental to at least test this option out, if bp further shows thats its still holds a negative impact for the meta, then we could just deem drypass the only legal way for the move to be used. whats so wrong in that? "Either keep it or remove it altogether. Let's not make the same mistake as Smogon by introducing even more unnecessary, complex bans." - if you can show that having only one pokemon using bp to pass stats that arent speed to be broken fine, if you can show that drypass is broken fine, otherwise you cant call it unnecessary if it actually doesnt happen to be a negative thing for the meta.

Yeah lemme just ban all the threats to my team so when i q, me and everyone else's ladder results are completely skewed.

I believe the only problem here is speed passing, which no doubt, is the most efficient use of bp. Personally, speed passing's real problem isnt how solid as a playstyle it is, which dont get me wrong it is a solid playstyle but how effective it can be at the hands of any player, even unexperienced ones. As it stands i feel like the lack of options such as substitute and attract make scolipede a much less than ideal passer than what it was on smogon, forcing the player to run support from screens/veil if it wants to get more than one boost that it gets from protect to its abusers. Despite this even if youre going for only 3 abusers it can be enough to cover most teams and much of this comes from two mons, manaphy and togekiss. In my opinion this is where the unhealthy aspect of bp comes into play, manaphy, which some of you might already know my opinion about, is absolutely devastating with speed boosts, making it much harder to revenge kill by offensive means, its has its stops, spdef ferro, cm unaware clef, mantine but realistically any ho is just gonna have to rely on priority to take out this mon, togekiss is an even worse example, anything thats worse than scarf togekiss can only be scarf togekiss on steroids, it still gonna rely on flinches to get what it wants only now it has the speed or higher of scarf and np at his disposal. I hope you understand how problematic this is, the way i see it bp is arguably the least competitive playstyle there is, sure you can say archtypes like ho and stall arent much better but they both have they're assets in making a player better, ho forces the player to be more aggresive and relying on prediction to get ahead, stall is a good demonstration on how a player can take a really complicated aspect from pokemon, that being the exhaust of all/almost all of your opponents resources and play it to its advantage, its not always easy has there are tools your opponent has at his disposal to dismantle your team, therefore making a proper stall team while hard is very rewarding for the player. With speed passing youre essentially playing a formula, getting hazard/screens/speed boost/boosting with recipient and youre done, you either win or dont, it really doesnt matter tho because thats the extent of the playstyle, you do not evolve as a player therefore its uncompetitive, nako put it perfectly "When you play pvp, you can't rely on the success of a probability too much to do and that doesn't depend on you, it's the same as being against the competition itself." replace the context of air slash flinch with matchup speed passing can have and that about sums it up my thoughts on it. Its the main reason why i used it on tours and pvp ladder, since im very bad at aknowledging how good my opponent is, its perfect at fishing a good matchup, in case i didnt want to play agressive with HO or bulky offense or going safe and risk my opponent bringing something very strong against it. Also if talon was buffed again scoli would be much harder to actually bp, just saying :]. However there are other examples of bp not being broken, nowhere near of the level of speedpassing, using baton pass with other boosts like cm or sd, means its much easier to revenge kill not only the recipient but even potentially the passer, it also allows for creative combos, a lot of it can benefit matchups against just about any playstyle but mainly stall/balance. Drypass is also a good reason as to why bp shouldnt be banned as a whole, and sure there arent many pokemon that abuse that tech but i dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to use it because one mon made it unhealthy for everyone. Medicham for example, could use baton pass to its favor to force mons like cofag or reuni inside and bring something like ttar, this is an example of bp being put to good use, rewarding the player for predicting its opponent. Tl;dr: baton pass as a whole isnt a broken element of the game imo, i do however think speed passing is an unhealthy aspect that i wouldnt mind see it gone as it heavily promotes uncompetitive play, otherwise i feel like any other type of bp use should be encouraged.

Seismitoad UNR->C: how is the toad unranked? the greatest switch to rotom-wash that gets up rocks pretty much, which might not sound that big when ferro exists but the fact that rotom is as good as it is is the fact that it invites every threat with volt switch, seismitoad at worse at least forces a hard switch, good utility between knock, toxic and the potential burns and naturally great typing dealing with threats like heatran, zapdos, mag, slowbro, rotom-h, gengar (check), gren (no hp grass, check), rd manaphy. Spdef is the only set imo (sassy), cause mons like bish and drill, which seismitoad on paper should check it, seem to always manage to overwhelm it. Its definitely not an easy mon to fit in any team and fundamentals such as lack of reliable recovery (tho i think rest is a potential niche option) and pokemon like gastro, which cover most things seismitoad does, existing. Its honestly a great pick on presure stall teams that follow the typical suicune/zapdos/clef line since those tend to be a bit pressured by momentum from rotom into wallbreakers. Might post more if i fell like it, we'll see

Baganha Gold Server Rank 8 Showdown name: Baganha Timezone: GMT+0

Player name: Baganha Showdown name: Baganha Server: Gold Timezone: GMT+0 Rank on ladder: 14

+1, i feel like they were trying to change something that was perfectly fine the way it was, not sure what was the point of it tbh