Rule for PVP

[Nechrit]

If you think a Gastrodon with choice specs locked in earthquake is a threat to Clefable and needs to calm mind 6 times to kill me, your opinion won't be relevant. But thanks for your participation.

The player either clicks Moonblast for 6 turns, riskying a potential crit on your side, or calm minds 6 times and OHKO you. Either way involves soft-boiled and what not. The time difference is so so minimal, let's be real. Under perfect IVs, your earthquake still damages more than a Moonblast, so since the players do not have access to the others' IVs and sets, why risk it at all. Of course we do not know what the other pokes were and if he could straight up 1hko with something else, but from the scenario you described does not seem like the player intentionally stalled you out of spite but rather went for the 'lazy' guarantee KO.

 

If counter arguments providing different point of views and data are to be considered irrelevant because it does not make you happy, well, it kinda shows why such rule should NOT be in place in the first place.

 

Agree on the forfeit button. Chances for it to be abused are minimal and would be a great quality of life improvement!

[Gamerseignvs]

We shall wait

[Johncampita211]

All the games also have the forfeit option, so you don't need to waste your time with people who are there just to frustrate you. If I had no mentality to play this game, I wouldnt be in the ladder 12 times in a roll. If you are here to be a hater instead of truly put your opinions out, you came to the wrong place. You can visit my channel, hate me there and give me views.

Forfeit is a good answer to this suggestion .Let me clarify bel Im not your hater , Im just here to give my stand and opinion about this thread. Even though you are in ladder many times you can't pleased everybody to agree about your point . We have all different opinions and please take note that before a putting this thread in forum.

Edited March 25, 2019 by johncampita211

[Belzebel]

The player either clicks Moonblast for 6 turns, riskying a potential crit on your side, or calm minds 6 times and OHKO you. Either way involves soft-boiled and what not. The time difference is so so minimal, let's be real. Under perfect IVs, your earthquake still damages more than a Moonblast, so since the players do not have access to the others' IVs and sets, why risk it at all. Of course we do not know what the other pokes were and if he could straight up 1hko with something else, but from the scenario you described does not seem like the player intentionally stalled you out of spite but rather went for the 'lazy' guarantee KO.

 

If counter arguments providing different point of views and data are to be considered irrelevant because it does not make you happy, well, it kinda shows why such rule should NOT be in place in the first place.

 

Agree on the forfeit button. Chances for it to be abused are minimal and would be a great quality of life improvement!

You are basing the calcs not considerating the situation of the battle. I had a low health Gastrodon locked in earthquake since it was tricket into Choice Specs. Also, this is an EXAMPLE. I will give you an easier example, only for you. Imagine a Blissey against a Gengar. Blissey has flamethrower, seismic toss, softboil and twave. Gengar is Paralysed with 10 hp. Gengar does NOT have Destiny Bond. Blissey spams seismic toss and thunder wave 12 turns instead of flamethower and end the game in 1 turn. You got it now? Or I need to be more specific? Would be cool to have a punishment for this type of people who are wasting time. Having the foirfeit option tho would save these people (your friends apparently) from getting punished, which is good for you and for me.

[Qeight]

@Belzebel @yakuzacamel @GamerseignVs @Madtrainer @darkblader12 @DaraChan @Pedrawr @Sleazer @Nechrit @eltyyy @Chalzon @navneeth @NamelessHero27 @PerfectMistake @Meen2 @johncampita211 @teerav @JorgeMape @Ta7esh @vikky90 @GeoMine @Euripides @Jazlan94 @KenjiSetou6969 @CobraMK @TeamRocketBoss @CAPTAINCOD1 @Fjabio [uSER=1408519]@Blacck[/uSER] [uSER=2291879]@Duerenkran[/uSER] | Tagged every user who commented or liked any of the previous posts

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I am Qeight, the Moderator Team Leader and in charge of most changes that would have an effect on the way my team enforces rules. We do consider most proposals, look at the positives and negatives of a possible change and make decisions accordingly. The same happened here hence I took some time to reply.

Is this a joke?

No, this is how normal proposals work. We consider everything and make a decision based on that.

So this suggestion was seriously taken into consideration? this was the only question i have

Yes, the same way any suggestion from you would be taken seriously. It would annoy you as well if you were instantly disregarded when you make a proposal, so I kindly ask you to stop with that sarcastic tone. This isn't the first time, if you have nothing productive to contribute to a discussion please do not comment at all.

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Onto the proposal, I believe there is a big misconception on what the proposal actually is. It's not banning PP stalling, it's banning intentionally PP stalling. Let me set the scene for a clearer understanding. It's a 1 v 1, Player A only has Scizor left.

• Payer A's Scizor with Choice Band used Bullet Punch
  - 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew on a critical hit: 175-207 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• Player B's Mew used Barrier.
  
• Payer A's Scizor with Choice Band used Bullet Punch
  - 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 58-70 (14.3 - 17.3%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• Player B's Mew used Soft-boiled
  
• Payer A's Scizor with Choice Band used Bullet Punch
  - 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew on a critical hit: 175-207 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• Player B's Mew used Barrier.
  
• Payer A's Scizor with Choice Band used Bullet Punch
  252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +4 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 40-48 (9.9 - 11.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
  
• etc..
  

At this rate the Mew can not be killed, even with critical hits. There is no way for Scizor to win this match-up however let's pretend the Scizor is at 10% HP. The Mew can simply use an attacking move to end the battle but instead chooses to use Barrier and Soft-boiled over and over and over again. The sole intention here is to waste time, this is currently allowed within the rules hence why we considered the proposal but this proved itself very difficult to actually write down.

The issues we faced were: We would be assuming intentions by enforcing such rule as we can not know for certain the user had an attacking move in their move set (at least not at a 100% rate due to server limitations) and if he had we would require video evidence of the ENTIRE match to look through if the user has enough PP or used them all. This proved itself very difficult, time consuming and simply not practical as a rule. Therefore the conclusion is that the rule stays untouched and remains the way it is written down.

3. Time stalling is forbidden. (Time Stalling =/= Stalling, using repetitive moves is allowed) Video evidence is required.

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Also, you don't need to have a big brain to judge properly whats time stalling or not. You only set up with a pokemon if you wanna sweep with it alone to kill 2 or more pokemon. When you can win the game against someone that has only one pokemon remaining you don't need to set up. I would understand if it was one calm mind and one moonblast. But 6? Come on...

I sadly have to inform you that majority of time-stalling reports are null and disregarded because users' do not know what time stalling is or have no video evidence to back up their claims. That is the reality of things. In my time as staff I enforced this rule three times in total.

if this was made a rule it would make absolutely no sense, being honest right here. i have found alot of people who do that just to tilt me but tbh i could careless cause i beat them even tho they do that, all i am trying to say is that, that pvp for you and yes belz i have played with a player like that on a showdown tour

agreed. they do it just to tilt you you just gotta be the bigger man and soldier through it if they're winning and they feel like gettin in your head a little bit thats all part of competitive play while annoying and frustrating its not worth making a new rule over. thats my 2 cents on the matter anyways

 

The above example explains exactly what you are misunderstanding. There is no way for you to win the match and then the PP stalling happens.

It's not a matter of if they are winning, they have the win 100% (if no disconnects occur).

I think whatever annoys someone should be banned.

The same thing I told to eltyyy, if you have nothing productive to contribute to the conversation please do not comment.

Same goes for PP stalling. The Struggle mechanic is in place to enforce a hard-cap in regards of time, so there you go they can not stall you forever. I have won 3 battles thanks to Struggle, when 'on paper' and had the other guy used a different move-set i i would have surely lost. Took me a while to set up, was extremely frustrating for him and took a long time, but i had used PP-ups on even rapin-spin and his 2 pokes struggled before my single one. I won the battle fair and square utilizing mechanics.

This was ultimately one of the deciding factors against a rule change as this happened to me more than once on my player account.

Now, if a rule such as yours is implemented, it would leave everything up to interpretation. It would make everything black or white, and at the end of the day innocent people might get punished for not having an as deep game knowledge as yours or factors outside their control

You said you had lost the game either way, i presume 12 to 15 turns can be very close to 10 minutes. So why not just dc, grab a cup of tea and come back?

Another deciding factor on why the change would be a bad idea.

I agree, we need a surrender bottom.

Instead of Arguing about banning a core pvp entity of pp stalling, you guys needs to consider implementing a Forfeit function for every match, if a user wants to forfeit thinking that he doesnt have chance to win a match, he can choose the option to quit.

Agree with @PerfectMistake. Adding forfeit option can easily solve this problem.

This thread is quickly turning into a "add a surrender button" suggestion thread. And for the record, this has been suggested several times.

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/66282-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/57943-url (Tie Button, a little different)

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/51343-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/48084-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum...pvp-penalty-isnt-necessary.45336/#post-280019 (Remove disconnect penalty)

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/43862-url/?do=findComment&comment=272942

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/43243-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/42675-url/?do=findComment&comment=266658

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/31283-url/?do=findComment&comment=204466 (Suggested in the official PvP Rules thread)

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum...d-solution-for-the-problem.41649/#post-261634

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/39471-url (More of a discussion than a suggestion)

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/29889-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/30818-url

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/26703-url/?do=findComment&comment=177236 (Suggested in a pvp rewards discussion)

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/7855-url

Yes a Forfeit button would solve the issue but that's not the grand subject here. If you want to make more suggestions about it feel free to do so but as Teerav pointed out this has already been done enough. If the Devs want to do it they can, it is solely up to them.

To sum it up, the surrender suggestion has had overwhelming support by the community for several years. However, the main deterrent staff and nay-sayers keep repeating is "it can be abused for pvp coins." However, some staff members voted to allow alt accounts into pvp even when that is abusable. And honestly, I dont think alt accounts being abused has been a huge problem. I have heard several stories of people getting banned for "boosting" their own accounts or friends. If moderators can successfully moderate pvp boosting, why cant they handle surrender abusing?

If Moderators get the correct and working tools to moderate these things then I wouldn't see an issue with a Forfeit button.

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Alright this is it from me, if you have more concerns feel free to comment again. :)

 

Kind regards,

Q8

Edited March 27, 2019 by Qeight

[Eltyyy]

So you're telling me you put as much thought into pvp council as to reply to this thread? coz im sure you didnt :) next, this rule is impossible to make happen coz the nature of it and it would simply not work, and still first day when the post went up there was a Moderator message about how it will be taken into consideration? (this post originally had nothing to do with forfeit button, which was also suggested 100 times but always ignored until now i guess) while pvp council ( the best pvp suggestion to ever be made here ) was just ignored for months and months while every best pvp player in the game supported the idea and some already left the game coz pvp scene is just trash and nobody is doing anything about it, all the mons are still running around and being abused,im pretty sure if you can check usage stats without sharing them you can confirm that, all the rain pokes and conk etc, not saying they should all be banned but there are for sure some that should (or atleast have a suspect test and see what community thinks) anyways, dont tell me any of my suggestions would be threated the same as this one when ideas like i mentioned earlier are completly ignored and no mod ever made even close as a big reply as you did on this thread, have a good day

[Guest deleteduser41af]

Why was i mentioned? Havent wrote in this.

[Qeight]

So you're telling me you put as much thought into pvp council as to reply to this thread? coz im sure you didnt :)

This is actually not true, a PvP council at this moment makes no sense. If you are a player who is around long enough then you would know that the meta game shifts from time to time on its own through development due to fixes, additions and such things. Is the topic off the table entirely? No and I will think of something when the time comes for it (around the Battle system rework) because then it actually makes sense to have a PvP council. As it currently stands, the only real dominating Pokemon are stuff like Conkeldurr who got buffed through an item buff in Gen7 and the usual walls. This community proved us more than enough that they are not capable of making the right decisions by proposing non sense bans. Does this mean the entire community is incapable of leading a PvP council? No but it also doesn't speak in favor for it. The time will come when we might come back to the idea.

 

next, this rule is impossible to make happen coz the nature of it and it would simply not work

If you had read my reply then you would understand, that it is in theory possible but just not a practical one. It would also be applied on situations that I have mentioned and nowhere else.

 

still first day when the post went up there was a Moderator message about how it will be taken into consideration?

The idea was pitched to me before this post was made, take that as you want.

 

(this post originally had nothing to do with forfeit button, which was also suggested 100 times but always ignored until now i guess)

It is not up to me to decide a forfeit button, this is solely up to the Devs. I am against a forfeit button if we don't get the tools to moderate it, if we do then I really do not care if we have one or not. As it currently stands I couldn't really moderate such things unless something gets changed with our tools. If that is the case, then I see no issues with a forfeit button. The argument of PvP coins farming is null anyway as you can even do it right now to some degree. Its less efficient than it would be with a forfeit button.

 

while pvp council ( the best pvp suggestion to ever be made here ) was just ignored for months and months while every best pvp player in the game supported the idea and some already left the game coz pvp scene is just trash and nobody is doing anything about it, all the mons are still running around and being abused,im pretty sure if you can check usage stats without sharing them you can confirm that, all the rain pokes and conk etc, not saying they should all be banned but there are for sure some that should (or atleast have a suspect test and see what community thinks) anyways, dont tell me any of my suggestions would be threated the same as this one when ideas like i mentioned earlier are completly ignored and no mod ever made even close as a big reply as you did on this thread, have a good day

I answered this to some degree above but in a nutshell, you would have received a proper reply if I were in the same position as I am now when the post was made. The thread was created roughly when I joined as an app so there is that. Take it was you want but I consider most of the things written ^^

 

Why was i mentioned? Havent wrote in this.

You liked one of the posts. ^^

[Madtrainer]

Before to start this, I would like to say that this is my final opinion, and it won't change anymore. In the first page, I said that i was not sure about if we needed such a rule or not, but now I know. I'll share with your some arguments, wich can be good or not.

 

I'll start with my main fear I have, cos I believe it's important for everybody playing this game. This fear is about some new PVP players that could be punished cos of their ignorance in PVP. To better explain, I'll show you an exemple of what could happens with such a rule in a specific case.

 

You have 2 Pokemon left against a simple Gastrodon. You have Kingdra (Yikes) and a Breloom (UWU).

Actually, this is Kingdra against Gastrodon, and you dont have Draco Meteor.

The best move you have to hit Gastrodon is Ice Beam.

Still you dont want to swich to Breloom cos you dont want to be burn by a possible Scald.

The guy in front of you is Nub, he just started and his Gastodon is Relaxed (Max HP, max Def).

He overrate his Bulky Gastrodon and think that he can tank anything from Breloom.

So he spam recover on your Kingdra Ice Beam and spam and spam.

It's a bit annoying, you have win, but this dude spam. It look like he dont know his type table.

You might think that he's ''Turn'' stalling. But the true is that he is indeed very new and very bad.

Still what could happens if you report him? Will he take a ban simply cos he's completely new?

It would be sad to punish a new player for 5-10 minutes of pure mistakes.

 

I want to precise that this is an ''EXAMPLE''.

It is not perfect and actually, rare are the players, even new, that would think like the one in the example.

Next argument is not perfect too, but it's mine. =P

 

First of all, I'm not the greatest PVP player, still I know the Meta and a few things. I also watched a lot of Pokemon videos those last 2 years.

The problem that Belzebel show us happens EVEN ON SHOWDOWN. Still this is very rare, and I think the problem is not ''present'' enough to legitimize a rule on it.

Rules are usually created for serious matter. (You cheat and you boost your rating, you're banned). I must admit that I was even suprised to see this rule being taken into consideration.

The idea is not bad, still I would prefer some stuff to be done than adding this rule. (Mega are coming, it could be a great idea to prepare a ''standard'' ban list for some of them) ;)

 

Since some people could be unfairly sanctionned, and since this is a minor problem for me, i think we dont need a rule for that. There must be more important problems to handle.

I'm not the one who will take the decision, still this is my opinion.

 

Good game to all! =D

[Panchalaniket20]

Even i agree there are people Who just want to waste time