Lets talk together about Staff & Player relationship !

[Shinohara]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:27 AM, 666G0D999 said:

Why did my post get deleted? This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Astrella. Astrella is not an event and has nothing to do with "This is a space I am offering in order to improve the staff-player relation."

 

I get it, mini-modding is not allowed, but come on, how is telling someone that doesn't belong here mini-modding?

But since we are at the topic, I'll throw my cents in.

What I noticed over my time playing is, the language barrier. Mods who don't speak english that well, tend to freak out over the smallest things. For example I allegedly used the word "prick" in all chat. I got mute banned for that. I had to ask 3-4 times before I even got evidence and the picture that was posted didn't work.

 

Ehi there @666G0D999

 

In total transparency, I think the mini-modding is probably one of the hardest infraction to spot, and as well to handle properly.

 

As for Minimodding, the best way to explain it is quoting our Chat Rules [How to Use Them]:

Quote

 

As for the language barrier, honestly, there is no problem, this caise if we have no idea about a specific word used, then we ask to people native to that region.

For example, when it comes to Japanese, Mandarin, Cantonese or Korean people usually ask me (for korean we also have other staff members).

The reason we ask other people is exactly cause it's important to not issue a punishment for a misunderstanding.

 

Just to prove what I am saying, when reviewing your mute I actually didn't know what a prick is and therefore asked to people that are native from UK and USA.

This just to prove my argument and show you what I say it's actually done.

And this happen for every language, in fact we have staff roles within our discord that allow us a comfortable handling of cases that involve other languages or even english words that are not relly common. (not knowing an english insult or similar doesn't mean your english is bad).

Just to show you some example of our roles, check our roles here below.

Spoiler

 

---

Quote

What is worse though, is that CONTEXT gets completely neglected. The context was, somebody got ripped off and I allegedly called the scammer "What a prick". I was being treated like I spit on someone, which is very weird.

I also have the feeling that once you broke the rules, you will always be black-balled no matter what. You get treated like scum and every little thing gets blown out of proportion.

 

In your case, you were actually muted for having called a user a prick (means a dick, according to UK and USA native) as a way to insult them after they had scammed someone.

I can understand you feeling angry or mad after someone else damages innocent players by scamming them, or any similar situation involving players being damage, however this doesn't allow you to break the rules as well.

 

This is something I tried to teach to other players as well like 45 times: If someone provoke, taunt, insult you/someone else or they break rules in any way, JUST REPORT THEM.

 

Context absolutely matters and we always consider it, however context doesn't mean that if two people break rules then only one is punished.

Fairness and considering context doesn't mean allowing players to make themselves justice alone or allowing them to insult rule breakers.

Rules exists for everyone, so everyone who break rules should be punished.

 

It doesn't matter if someone insult you first or similar. If someone call you "retarded trash guy" (making an example), you are NOT allowed to insult them back. What you should do in that case is reporting them so they get their punishment and you get justice, however said justice is done by the correct people (in this case staff).

 

I tried to explain this point to several people many times, hopefully this was clear enough to clarify the fact that self-justice is wrong and not allowed and that the report function exists exactly to help staff finding rule breakers and punish them, contributing in helping the game in this way.

 

Hopefully I was able to cover each one of your point.

Have a wonderful day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghabra]

@Shinohara this is a bit off topic , just one thing , calling someone a prick vs calling someone a [sausage] is like calling someone stupid vs calling them a dumbass , they are both insults but kind of don't have the same weight and aggression . Prick is closer to calling someone a jerk which isn't exactly an insult.

I don't know what the guy said but I'm just saying .

 

Urban dictionary ghabra out.

[666g0d999]

4 hours ago, Shinohara said:

 

Ehi there @666G0D999

 

In total transparency, I think the mini-modding is probably one of the hardest infraction to spot, and as well to handle properly.

 

As for Minimodding, the best way to explain it is quoting our Chat Rules [How to Use Them]:

 

As for the language barrier, honestly, there is no problem, this caise if we have no idea about a specific word used, then we ask to people native to that region.

For example, when it comes to Japanese, Mandarin, Cantonese or Korean people usually ask me (for korean we also have other staff members).

The reason we ask other people is exactly cause it's important to not issue a punishment for a misunderstanding.

 

Just to prove what I am saying, when reviewing your mute I actually didn't know what a prick is and therefore asked to people that are native from UK and USA.

This just to prove my argument and show you what I say it's actually done.

And this happen for every language, in fact we have staff roles within our discord that allow us a comfortable handling of cases that involve other languages or even english words that are not relly common. (not knowing an english insult or similar doesn't mean your english is bad).

Just to show you some example of our roles, check our roles here below.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

---

 

In your case, you were actually muted for having called a user a prick (means a [sausage], according to UK and USA native) as a way to insult them after they had scammed someone.

I can understand you feeling angry or mad after someone else damages innocent players by scamming them, or any similar situation involving players being damage, however this doesn't allow you to break the rules as well.

 

This is something I tried to teach to other players as well like 45 times: If someone provoke, taunt, insult you/someone else or they break rules in any way, JUST REPORT THEM.

 

Context absolutely matters and we always consider it, however context doesn't mean that if two people break rules then only one is punished.

Fairness and considering context doesn't mean allowing players to make themselves justice alone or allowing them to insult rule breakers.

Rules exists for everyone, so everyone who break rules should be punished.

 

It doesn't matter if someone insult you first or similar. If someone call you "retarded trash guy" (making an example), you are NOT allowed to insult them back. What you should do in that case is reporting them so they get their punishment and you get justice, however said justice is done by the correct people (in this case staff).

 

I tried to explain this point to several people many times, hopefully this was clear enough to clarify the fact that self-justice is wrong and not allowed and that the report function exists exactly to help staff finding rule breakers and punish them, contributing in helping the game in this way.

 

Hopefully I was able to cover each one of your point.

Have a wonderful day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but no, you don't take context into consideration. You just said it yourself. You realize I insulted a scammer, but the context doesn't matter because I broke the rules.

This is not the first time. I also got banned for mentioning Osama Bin Laden in all chat. This was considered terrorist activity. lol Or the time I got banned, when I said regular mods can not fix the servers. <-- This statement was understood as an insult to staff, when in reality, all I was saying is they are not devs and ppl in all chat should stop complaining about the servers to regular mods.

Granted, you did private message me ingame and listend to me, but it didn't change the outcome of my ban.

I'll show you a snippet from the appeal, but I removed the name of the moderator:



 

 

 

Then he wrote this:

 

 

 

How is that response appropiate? He asked me what I did. That makes absolutely no sense. Also I only bumped the thread once more (so twice) in 24 hours and he feels the need to warn me. But browsing pokemon shops instead of answering to my appeal seems like more fun I guess. Also, he never answered my question about the dates. He completely ignored it. When I pm'd him that the evidence screenshot isn't working, he completely ignored me.

 

I sincerly couldn't remember saying that, because I usually don't use that word. Then I figured out it happened when somebody got scammed and the reason I used the word prick, is to not get banned. Because prick is like calling someone an idiot or stupid, something that Qeight is obviously allowed to do, but I guess when players insult scammers it's not okay.

 

Edit: I would also like to add, that screenshot from discord doesn't prove anything. That's one guy who responded.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by 666G0D999

[666g0d999]

 

 

 

I forgot to add this. "irrespecful" proves my point of not understanding english, also he basically said he would've unbanned me if I didn't lie. I was not lying and made it clear, that I don't even want the ban appealed, I just wanted to know what happened. Interesting to see that he can willy-nilly decide if he wants to appeal or not. I thought it's based on context and rules, instead it's based on his emotions. Because he feels like I lied and I'm "paranoid" he will not unban. If I sucked up to him and insincerely played the "social" game, he would've unbanned me. This is what I'm talking about when I say bs bans. Context does not matter.

 

But what bothered me the most was this: "Creating other appeals, will only lead to a harsher punishment, and a ban of the forum. "

So please tell me this doesn't discourage players from appealing/reporting staff, scared they will get banned from forum or ingame. The general "Complain" section doesn't seem like the right spot. I know you do have a special section to report staff now, but why doesn't he know that?

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by 666G0D999

[Shinohara]

On 6/25/2021 at 2:30 AM, toantoanel98 said:

Hello keita and friends
First my english is not good so sorry if it confuses you.
There is one problem that makes me wonder: once I hunted pokemon on the event valenatine event map, the server lag sent me flying into the clouds (I don't use other software) and I got banned.
Although I was spared but I lost 1 time unbanned. Next time if that happens I will be banned forever. So, next time if this happens, who can I contact to help me?? And how to contact??
Thank you very much.

 

Ehi there @toantoanel98

 

The reason you were banned for is Macro Usage, more precisely an investigation that needed your cooperation as the case was quite particular.

During the appeal, the staff handling it was really kind and transparent with you, exactly like you were as well (and we appreciate when users are honest and cooperative).

 

Giving the fact that your argument looked solid and in addition to the fact you were honest and cooperative, the staff handling it decided to give you the benefit of doubt.

This doesn't mean that you were innocent, but it also doesn't mean that you were guilty. We simply decided to believe you and your words/argument after considering it accurately within the GM team.

 

As for will happen the next time, there is no answer for this. As long as you will be innocent or as long as we won't have enough/solid evidences that prove you violated the rules, then you simply will still be allowed to play without any problem.

Do remember that we can maintain bans only if they are supported by solid and undeniable evidences that clearly prove the user is guilty.

 

Regarding any other ban, if you think any ban received is unjustly then you can just make an appeal in the Discipline Appeal Subforum

 

 

Kind regards, 

 

- Keita

[Shinohara]

On 6/25/2021 at 2:56 AM, MadhavXDark said:

Hi , I hope you all are fine ...

Recently 1 month ago I got perma ban . I  didnot did anything they gave me "RMT investigation" reason   but I didnot did and they banned me for 1 month that appeal take 1 month totally ? Seriously without proper investigation you are banning innocent ppl ? And I know mod are human and they have thier real life but taking 1 month for one appeal ? If u can't handel that case or you are busy can't you transfer your case to other mod ?  I spend  and waste my time in appeal and it's make me  low interest in pro 

Ty

Regards

Madhavxdark

 

 

Hi there @MadhavXDark

 

I have addressed this here: https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/topic/178759-lets-talk-together-about-staff-player-relationship/?do=findComment&comment=1001250

 

Please, read it and let me know if you have any other question please.

[Shinohara]

On 6/25/2021 at 4:18 AM, Gaidevoir said:

It would be good to avoid harassing players by private messages on discord and threatening to ban them if they do not respond to you within 10 minutes of your message:

 

 

In my case he was a GM who is no longer in the staff now, I answered all his questions all day while being respectful but he came back to see me several hours later and it was dark at home so I was asleep I could not answer him right away, by connecting to discord I could see many notifications from him where he threatened to ban me if I did not answer him literally 10 minutes after he asked his question. from there he kept threatening to ban me if I didn't answer him within 5min.

 

It was really a really bad experience to go through this for several days it almost made me stop playing the game. I understand that a GM has to react quickly when there is a problem but we players have a life also we cannot be at your entire disposal for several days to answer your questions immediately, especially since I answered all his messages as soon as I saw them.

 

 

I don't know if this is usual with you or if it was just the person's method, but this kind of action is not pleasant for the players. Imagine being threatened with wasting your thousands of hours of farming multiple times just because you didn't immediately respond to a staff member's question via a private message on Discord that makes you lose all desire to play the game. I'm surely not the only person to have had this bad experience.

 

Kinds regards.

 

Honestly speaking, it's hard to answer this cause it quite lack of a sense as a situation and it's something that is not within our procedures.

 

Could you please provide some evidences about it as well as when it happened? It's possible it's really old stuff happened before I was even in charge and therefore I am unaware about it

[Nhocsake]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:04 PM, 666G0D999 said:

Then I figured out it happened when somebody got scammed and the reason I used the word prick

 

I have been living among the British for 3 years now and I can say that the word Prick isn't an insult word. It was actually a "love" curse to say. I never feel being insulted by that word under any circumstances and it is 100% differ from the word [sausage].

 

Picture shows a small petition to see if prick is a swear word with nearly 70% choose No.

 

I sometimes use the word Prick to my friend too and I don't want to be banned like @666G0D999did before. My suggestion is unless it is obvious curse like "F*ck,", the word should be discuss with the player, on what context is he/she using and why he/she uses it, with obvious screenshot so he/she can explain for him/herself because base on the language and context, it could be something else (sometimes I don't even remember what I said in the past)

[Mythicallegend]

Anyone who is opposing staff either on point or not , 
take a moment to thank @Shinohara for his massive time he spent to read carefully each of every comment and explain in a massive detailed comment each one mostly and for this thread overall , at the end of the day , try to understand aside from the personal issues or the general complaints overall that he is dedicating massive amount of time that I personally while following up this thread and just observing can't keep up with his further detailed explanations.

All I can say to all the ladies & gentlemen here , ask for positive outcomes that can help maintain good suitable ways for both sides the way it should be rather than focusing high lighting every issue and debate it over and over.

At the end of the day , the staff are human beings as well, 
They are role models I agree, but meanwhile they're just like us , and as much I respect manners , I can't orientate an issue of someone ( staff member) calling someone stupid or something to be my all point of discussion , it's wrong but you just can't hang them on that as said , they're not bots , they're human beings and they also warn us regular players or veterans when it's viable to and tolerate and we should be too as well and focus this discussion more on retrieving generally healthy relationship between members and staff over the game and on the personal interacting too.

Good day to everyone ,
And again cheers @Shinohara and to everyone who posted here ( Staff & Members ).

[Gaidevoir]

1 hour ago, Shinohara said:

 

Honestly speaking, it's hard to answer this cause it quite lack of a sense as a situation and it's something that is not within our procedures.

 

Could you please provide some evidences about it as well as when it happened? It's possible it's really old stuff happened before I was even in charge and therefore I am unaware about it

Sent in Discord dm.