PRO's Moderation Discussion

[Lenteurman]

• Adapt your moderation : a 'W' in trade chat is not a fault or an obligation to warn a player, someone speaking another language in another chat could have made a fail of tab, don't warn him. These are some kind of examples which could be better handled.
  
  • It's not making an exception, it's adapting moderation to real cases. One player could have fail, 2 players in less than 5 minutes is probably an infraction.
    

 

• Judge everyone differently : If you warn and mute someone , please, only warn the second player.
  
  • The 2nd player can just connect, or just switch chat, or re-open the chatbox ( i kept it closed when i farm ) and has never seen the warn.
    

 

• Adapt your sanctions : When someone is muted for swearing, stop over-cumulating the sanction until banning him.
  
  • No provocation on mod, adapt duration and don't sanction on the next duration stage.
    
  • If weeks between sanctions , maybe reset or just pass on previous duration stage.
    

 

• Be more precise : When you moderate, precise more the message of the sanction.
  
  • Some players are sanctionned with one word as reason and really don't understand why they are muted. You forced them to make an appeal.
    

 

• Find a way when players dc/crash and don't have the name of the buyer/seller. We could only find the buyer/seller in Trade chat as they keep this chat open. So asking ' Hey the man who sells Charizard, pm me ' is the best way to find again the guy. They surely don't have All Chat or Another chat open at this moment.
  
  • Don't moderate this case until a proper way is find.
    

 

• There was a specific case :
  
  • Lot of french players got sanctionned from the French channel because of their behavior.
    
  • We decided to create a private channel and invited all the guys who wanted to speak freely.
    
  • We couldn't speak freely because :
    
    • Couldn't force a password (desactivated)
      
    • The mod (Epiales) was aware of the channel because some players enforced the rules and advertised the channel on French channel
      

=> Give again the option of password for the private channels plz

 

 

Over the 3 years of PRO, lot of players left PRO because of the extrem application of the rules and the no-adaptation to each case and each people.

Professionalism is different of being strict.

 

Thanks for having read my post.

[Qeight]

Adapt your moderation : a 'W' in trade chat is not a fault or an obligation to warn a player, someone speaking another language in another chat could have made a fail of tab, don't warn him. These are some kind of examples which could be better handled.

• It's not making an exception, it's adapting moderation to real cases. One player could have fail, 2 players in less than 5 minutes is probably an infraction.
  

Your example is contradicting. "One player could have fail, 2 players in less than 5 minutes is probably an infraction.", what if the second player is also a fail and the third and the fourth?

At what stage does it classify as an infraction in your eyes? It's out of question that the rule already has been broken but at what point do you want to be warned?

 

Judge everyone differently : If you warn and mute someone , please, only warn the second player.

• The 2nd player can just connect, or just switch chat, or re-open the chatbox ( i kept it closed when i farm ) and has never seen the warn.
  

Moderation staff are trained to give adequate and time sensitive warnings. If there was a warning 20 minutes ago you won't be muted. If there was a warning 2 minutes ago you will be muted. If the warning was in All Chat (lets say a warning for swearing), and you swear in Help Chat, you will be warned.

The warnings don't carry over per chat.

Adapt your sanctions : When someone is muted for swearing, stop over-cumulating the sanction until banning him.

• No provocation on mod, adapt duration and don't sanction on the next duration stage.
  
• If weeks between sanctions , maybe reset or just pass on previous duration stage.
  

You have to go deeper into that please. Users' have to break the rules FOUR times in order to get quiet-banned. This is already in one session.

Your mutes don't carry over from yesterday, so in a sense they reset.

 

Be more precise : When you moderate, precise more the message of the sanction.

• Some players are sanctionned with one word as reason and really don't understand why they are muted. You forced them to make an appeal.
  

"Spamming" "swearing" "double posting", are common reasons used when muting. Can you give examples here.

Why would you appeal a 60 second mute?

 

• There was a specific case :
  
  • Lot of french players got sanctionned from the French channel because of their behavior.
    
  • We decided to create a private channel and invited all the guys who wanted to speak freely.
    
  • We couldn't speak freely because :
    
    • Couldn't force a password (desactivated)
      
    • The mod (Epiales) was aware of the channel because some players enforced the rules and advertised the channel on French channel
      

=> Give again the option of password for the private channels plz

The channel was moderated because it was announced in French chat, share it around in private and we won't moderate it. I agree though, a channel with password and the old functions would be really cool. I am not sure if they were removed or why they were removed really. I liked them a lot.

 

Over the 3 years of PRO, lot of players left PRO because of the extrem application of the rules and the no-adaptation to each case and each people.

Professionalism is different of being strict.

In over 3 years a lot has happened, the current staff team is way more lax than it was back then. The language chats sadly are a toxic place, they weren't moderated a whole lot in the past, people ignoring them and such. If there are staff members who can speak the language they should moderate them.

 

Topic - Punishment policy is too harsh

First of all hello to all of u

U all are pretty good and do your job greatly

Im new to pro (1 week)

And i read your punishment policy and i found it toooooooooo hrash i found u perma ban player even if it is big or small thing

My point is that if a player does a mistake you should ban him/her[for sure!] but...but..but you should not perma ban a player because a player has to hard work a lot to improve its acc in real life people are punished for a specific period of so you should also start doing this you can ban a player for 1 week,1month,1year no problem but pls dont perma ban them i hope you get my point rest you all are epic

What aspect is too harsh? Botting, RMT, Cheaters getting a permanent ban? This is common and standard in every game.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Qeight

[Thatkid]

You should know by now. You can't mediate or discuss anything with PRO's staff. If you say anything bad about them, they'll probably give you a warning because the sensitivity setting is set to ultra high. A lot of these staff come from guilds, and ten to one, you probably have argued with them as a normal member at one point, and what happens when they run in your line of sight again, with past grudges? Yep. You guessed it! You get shot at, while they use the pro rules as bullets and reload for another headshot. These are sneaky people. See how they go back to your previous offences to shield themselves and even worse, those forums are supposed to be CONFIDENTIAL but nooooooo. All of them can see your history. They can judge you but say a wrong word about them, and oh boy, if you've seen Saitama get serious... OneBanMan could be a spin-off, hmm let me think.

 

I shall accept the most hated by staff title because i'm that amazing and sincerely vocal about the community. I'm sorry if the truth is toxic. PS, I see you Sheev Palpatine!!

[Qeight]

You should know by now. You can't mediate or discuss anything with PRO's staff. If you say anything bad about them, they'll probably give you a warning because the sensitivity setting is set to ultra high. A lot of these staff come from guilds, and ten to one, you probably have argued with them as a normal member at one point, and what happens when they run in your line of sight again, with past grudges? Yep. You guessed it! You get shot at, while they use the pro rules as bullets and reload for another headshot. These are sneaky people. See how they go back to your previous offences to shield themselves and even worse, those forums are supposed to be CONFIDENTIAL but nooooooo. All of them can see your history. They can judge you but say a wrong word about them, and oh boy, if you've seen Saitama get serious... OneBanMan could be a spin-off, hmm let me think.

I shall accept the most hated by staff title because i'm that amazing and sincerely vocal about the community. I'm sorry if the truth is toxic. PS, I see you Sheev Palpatine!!

I will be completely honest with you, speaking from actual experience of receiving staff hate and being banned for 8 months, I can assure you with 100% certainty that if you actually attempted to be constructive with actual feedback instead of calling everything corrupt, we would be very inclined to listen to you.

 

I was a very vocal player, I am a very vocal staff, with players as well as with everyone within staff. I don't shy back to argue even ifs not the most appropriate time or most respectful manner if I believe something is wrong I will call it by name. What I gather a lot from posts here are non concrete feedback from stuff that happened way in the past that could be easily explained. Sadly while this may sound rude, a lot of players are not telling the full truth of what actually happened, they may not know or don't remember but often times, more than I would like to admit they simply lie. They didn't do X when there is literaly proof of them doing it X.

 

Its something I was talking to Samurai about, you might not got the full scope of everything that happened but I received a lot of hate from players for banning their friends when there was nothing wrong about it. I will give you an example, I received tons of hate for banning a known booster who played hundreds of matches against their alternative account, the evidence is there and accessible for everyone in the moderation team. The ban was 100% accurate yet it was said that "Qeight was abusive, abuses his powers" and such, while we will never be able to prevent that we can make sure that everyone gets a fair explanation if possible.

 

I spent lengthy amounts of times reviewing old cases, unbanning players, overruling old staff decisions because I believed in something, I still believe that no player should be abused by staff nor should they fear to speak out in what they believe. This obviously has to be done in a respectful and constructive manner, e.g what you wrote earlier is the perfect example of what we do not need.

We want your feedback, that's why we made the thread but what we will not be willing to do is listen to how corrupt we are when we never hear examples. I hear a lot of times that I am abusive, ban without evidence, hold grudges against players and such things, this is obviously not the reality.

 

I understand that "trust" in staff is at a low point, hell I wouldn't trust staff if I were still player given my experience I had with staff. If there is any light at the end of the dark tunnel, then it would be me. As I said, I know what corrupt staff and bias staff look like and how they can hurt you. Nobody in their right mind would think I would support that.

 

Do we make mistakes? Yes. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Do we see every mistake? No.

We are all also just humans who do this stuff in our free time, we are not perfect but we are trying and reaching out to you guys.

[Akidbs]

Your example is contradicting. "One player could have fail, 2 players in less than 5 minutes is probably an infraction.", what if the second player is also a fail and the third and the fourth?

At what stage does it classify as an infraction in your eyes? It's out of question that the rule already has been broken but at what point do you want to be warned?

 

 

Moderation staff are trained to give adequate and time sensitive warnings. If there was a warning 20 minutes ago you won't be muted. If there was a warning 2 minutes ago you will be muted. If the warning was in All Chat (lets say a warning for swearing), and you swear in Help Chat, you will be warned.

The warnings don't carry over per chat.

 

You have to go deeper into that please. Users' have to break the rules FOUR times in order to get quiet-banned. This is already in one session.

Your mutes don't carry over from yesterday, so in a sense they reset.

 

 

"Spamming" "swearing" "double posting", are common reasons used when muting. Can you give examples here.

Why would you appeal a 60 second mute?

 

 

The channel was moderated because it was announced in French chat, share it around in private and we won't moderate it. I agree though, a channel with password and the old functions would be really cool. I am not sure if they were removed or why they were removed really. I liked them a lot.

 

 

In over 3 years a lot has happened, the current staff team is way more lax than it was back then. The language chats sadly are a toxic place, they weren't moderated a whole lot in the past, people ignoring them and such. If there are staff members who can speak the language they should moderate them.

 

 

What aspect is too harsh? Botting, RMT, Cheaters getting a permanent ban? This is common and standard in every game.

Every other game is shit this is pro dude and thats it end of discussion lol <3

[Thatkid]

OMG. This must be the first person I came across that actually has a heart. No offence to the other white walkers. I wasn't always, you could say, anti-staff, i'm an abomination of past experiences with staff and if i'm like this, can you imagine how other players are like? Oh and let me tell you, there are others lurking in the PRO shadows, peeping through the veil but remaining silent and not coming forward. I can say it's good that you guys decided to step down from your throne and have an audience with the town folk and being open to their issues of the day around PRO moderation, but it could also be said, why now all of a sudden? Is this really to build a bridge of better understanding between the players and staff or is it another publicity stunt of somesort?

 

Obviously the word trust was thrown out the window and left to fly a lonely journey, which is why my first post said "What's the point to this". It just feels a little too late.

 

Look how you destroyed all chat with unnecessary rules. All Chat is the best place to be in-game. When I was opposing the new all chat rules, I got warnings for it instead. Before implementing a rule, shouldn't you have asked for feedback on it to get players opinions about it before ramming it down our throats? It's extremely fascist behaviour like that, that destroys trust in staff altogether.

[Qeight]

OMG. This must be the first person I came across that actually has a heart. No offence to the other white walkers. I wasn't always, you could say, anti-staff, i'm an abomination of past experiences with staff and if i'm like this, can you imagine how other players are like? Oh and let me tell you, there are others lurking in the PRO shadows, peeping through the veil but remaining silent and not coming forward. I can say it's good that you guys decided to step down from your throne and have an audience with the town folk and being open to their issues of the day around PRO moderation, but it could also be said, why now all of a sudden? Is this really to build a bridge of better understanding between the players and staff or is it another publicity stunt of somesort?

It's not a sudden process, I have been working towards an open and more transparent staff team since I was made a staff. The current team leaders (Shinohara, Logan and me) have similar opinions and visions for the future which does not include anything that past staff did.

We want to see improvements with the moderation aspect, how the community receives it. There is no way we will achieve 100% happiness or approval rate but we want to change what we don't see but players see. If we wanted to publicity stunts we certainly wouldn't do it with such a touchy subject.

 

 

OMG. This must be the first person I came across that actually has a heart. No offence to the other white walkers. I wasn't always, you could say, anti-staff, i'm an abomination of past experiences with staff and if i'm like this, can you imagine how other players are like?

A bit to my backstory so you might understand it better, my playeraccount is PreHax. I know what it feels like getting hate from staff, being treated unfairly and with bias. I also know that reaching out to players in a meaningful way can improve relationships. I also know that someone who absolutely hated staff can become staff. I am a very critical person, especially of things I don't approve of however with time comes experience. Lashing out, being disrespectful, making snarky and sarcastic comments are just not helpful at all, literally they are doing the opposite regardless of what you want. If you want actual change please propose ideas, give actual feedback on why something is bad and not flat out say its bad.

 

I was very anti-staff, when I was made staff we still had staff members who were against me and didn't think I would last long. If there is one thing I want you to take away from this is that the past can stay in the past, we want to focus on the future.

 

Obviously the word trust was thrown out the window and left to fly a lonely journey, which is why my first post said "What's the point to this". It just feels a little too late.

I can't ask you to trust staff blindly, what I can ask you though is to give us another chance, the current team, the current leaders and admins. We didn't have anything to do with past mistakes, we didn't create past rules or did past actions. We are here to improve the game in a way our community can appreciate it.

 

Look how you destroyed all chat with unnecessary rules. All Chat is the best place to be in-game. When I was opposing the new all chat rules, I got warnings for it instead. Before implementing a rule, shouldn't you have asked for feedback on it to get players opinions about it before ramming it down our throats? It's extremely fascist behaviour like that, that destroys trust in staff altogether.

I am confused about this one, are you talking about the ratings in battle chat thing? This has been removed for weeks already as it was obviously not working.

There haven't been any "new" all chat rules, what are you referring to?

[Allsmell]

Idk if this already exists but I assume not(as I haven't seen). Can we get people with trade bans to have a forum tag when they post in trade forums. Mabye with a timer of how long they have left. On the forum note can we also get a forum timer somewhere in the interface that isn't linked to our computer time(which shows on every page).

[Thatkid]

It's not a sudden process, I have been working towards an open and more transparent staff team since I was made a staff. The current team leaders (Shinohara, Logan and me) have similar opinions and visions for the future which does not include anything that past staff did.

We want to see improvements with the moderation aspect, how the community receives it. There is no way we will achieve 100% happiness or approval rate but we want to change what we don't see but players see. If we wanted to publicity stunts we certainly wouldn't do it with such a touchy subject.

 

 

 

A bit to my backstory so you might understand it better, my playeraccount is PreHax. I know what it feels like getting hate from staff, being treated unfairly and with bias. I also know that reaching out to players in a meaningful way can improve relationships. I also know that someone who absolutely hated staff can become staff. I am a very critical person, especially of things I don't approve of however with time comes experience. Lashing out, being disrespectful, making snarky and sarcastic comments are just not helpful at all, literally they are doing the opposite regardless of what you want. If you want actual change please propose ideas, give actual feedback on why something is bad and not flat out say its bad.

 

I was very anti-staff, when I was made staff we still had staff members who were against me and didn't think I would last long. If there is one thing I want you to take away from this is that the past can stay in the past, we want to focus on the future.

 

 

I can't ask you to trust staff blindly, what I can ask you though is to give us another chance, the current team, the current leaders and admins. We didn't have anything to do with past mistakes, we didn't create past rules or did past actions. We are here to improve the game in a way our community can appreciate it.

 

 

I am confused about this one, are you talking about the ratings in battle chat thing? This has been removed for weeks already as it was obviously not working.

There haven't been any "new" all chat rules, what are you referring to?

 

OMG PREHAX. ALL HAIL JON SNOW!

 

Well for the most part I agree with your post. We both came from that other MMO, that won't be named. So i agree, let the past stay in the past. That said:

 

Two ideas!

 

a) A pro magazine in the form of a downloadable pdf or viewed online, that showcases plenty of stuff. There's too many to mention. Just be creative. (Could also add those players who never did mapping before but made a good looking map. Doesn't that make them feel better and want to continue honing their skills due to unexpected recognition.)

 

b) A player award tag that shows in-game, to recognize an exceptional player for his/her work in whatever field they excelled in - could be by helping others, doing trades for others, what about those players who trains your tedious happiny in their daycare? Anything is possible here.

 

c). Rock, Paper, Scissors, okay this i'm just putting here because it's fun to verse another player https://www.rpsgame.org/ (But seriously this game needs a section on the forum :o)

[Gio]

Could I get a proper reply to my first comment? From actual staff.