Lets talk together about Staff & Player relationship !

[Frucht]

I thought I will give my two cents here as a former Staff and quite the old player (some people might know me as Chris) as well, especially since this is just a unnecessary witchhunt at this point.

 

Before I start a few words to @Belzebel: You are promoting 18+ content on your social media, including your Discord (Guild Discord!) based around a Pokemon game with a usually rather young audience for your own personal gain. In that case, money and attention. Feel free to deny that, but we both know the truth, I have known you for years. Here is the issue though. As soon as somebody does not agree with your opinion or dislikes you for named reasons, he is a hater, jealous of you or whatnot and you genuinely believe that you are doing nothing wrong. You also genuinely believe that Staff is targetting you, but the truth is, you break rules all the time and usually get away with a warning. Maybe you should start to reflect whether or not everyone else is the problem, or maybe you and work on it?

 

 

Now, a few words directly towards the team. Staff in general has huge problems and did so for many years. Sadly, they did not get resolved and just got worse. Probably 2/3 of the team swapped entirely during my time and most of the people I actually liked to work with got so fed up that they left, me included.

 

So, what exactly was going on? I will explain my experience and view, so this is subjective.

Every decision has to go through @Walrosskastanie, if he does not like the idea, it will usually get denied. It is irrelevant whether the entire team proposes that it would benefit the game or not. In my case, that was CS stuff (basically everything you interact with, aka press spacebar), but it is not limited to that specifically. Some quality check is totally fine and needed, but you usually do not get through that easily. Most of the time, many pings and dm's were necessary to even get a response. Wally, I talked to you so often about that and it was an issue when I joined and when I left. You are massively overloaded and need to distribute some work/decision making to others not named @Cames who is busy enough as well. Somebody has to be trustworthy enough at this point.

 

 

Next major issue:

The team itself. Basically, the people.

I am very sorry if i hurt somebody in this paragraph, but I always prefered telling the truth over being liked and pretending like all of you do great work and are there for good reason. Basically, half the team has the complete wrong intentions and the personalities you find there, showing especially when some got promoted to "higher" positions is just disgusting. For example, powertripping (which is rather common inside a specific role :d) ala God complex, threatening people to make sure they get banned ingame and from Staff for literally no reason other than them being mad at you. I got enough screenshots, but I wont publish that.

 

Next up, a good amount joining as testers (sorry its just most common there than elsewhere) just for the rewards while not even trying to find a bug, reading the dialogue or anything else other than spamming through our scripts and saying its all working. On top of that, many new people completely unqualified for the position, in fact so much in our CS team that we had to introduce a new role called "Story Writer", because half of the CS team suddenly didn't speak even decent english. We started to break our own recruitment rules, accepted a bunch of people very, very immature, incapable of speaking understandable English in roles where exactly that is a necessity. It got to the point where we went from usually quite bugless scripts with barely bug reports, to the bug reports channel having hundreds of just grammar corrections for even the simplest sentences. This doesn't even include the huge amount of the dumbest bugs just showing that the CS didn't even check his script once for himself.

Also, a bunch of people tried to force their opinion on in game decisions including certain PvP decisions for their own advantage. Somebody really needed a Excadrill, so has to argue that we have to add Exca to 3 bosses, Excavations and headbutt. On top of that, we also improve the tier of the spawn and give some reasoning, which doesnt even makes sense, but that is okay. (This example did not happen, but stuff like this sadly happened all the time and I talked multiple times with @Keita about it, it improved slightly)

 

About the Staff - Player relation:

If you actually think there is a very mature discussion inside Staff, you are wrong. Players are being made fun of, are being treated differently depending on how liked they are etc. Always was like this and never changed. For example, @Waleed1301 was the most active and one of the nicest people with a little bad backstory (not even close to being as bad as mine who exploited the game once) but was stamped by half the team as immature and annoying. @Keita wanted to give him a shot, but many threatened to leave the team or started insulting each other and him if he ever dares to join the team. And guess what, he got declined even though he would have been probably the best out of all the CC's right now. Fun fact, if you searched "waleed" in the general chat, it was so bad that they wanted to clear the entire chat when he almost joined.

 

Another thing are all the empty promises. I get it, you work on something and get excited and make an announcement that it will come to the game soon. But it often takes months and in some cases years for it to happen, lack of communication and organisation in the team and the constant leaving/recruiting DUE TO all the issues. Did anyone ever wonder where Astrella is? I can promise you, this could have been finished a year ago, easily. People get the lead on the project, do nothing for months and then leave with no progress. Over and over.

Talking about organisation, the events do not have to be delayed all the time, the team just got lazy and unorganized with last minute submissions. We often didn't even see the requested art before the event started.

 

If you really care about improving any relation, you would have to kick half of the Staff team including many in higher positions, which will never happen, might even be impossible and therefore results in good people leaving and the ones with bad intentions staying. Its rather funny that everyone I knew with a good education, that I considered as smart, left one after another. I could name some impressive people I got to known there, but I will keep that private as well, they probably know.

 

A good chunk of Staff also needs to be disrespectful and even insulting in public chats. Guys, you represent the game? If nobody knows you are Staff, then go ahead and act all monkey, but not as representatives. This is the actual witchhunt in this channel right now, but @Qeight isn't even the biggest problem there. Felix, personal message again, I told you to relax and be atleast a bit more reputable in public, you really have to work on this since the work you are doing is awesome. Funny enough, I was the black sheep for being especially disrespectful inside Staff for above named reasons all the time as well. But at the end, we are like this because we want to improve and work on the game, other than the people we get so mad at for getting in our way with their ego and stupidity.

 

There is actually way more, but this is more than enough insight for people who want to know the current Staff situation and for Staff to hopefully realize why the community dislikes you so much. We have had such a good team back then and it all went more and more downhill in almost no time, but I told you almost all of it already.

 

PS: Not proofreading this one, sorry for mistakes.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Frucht

[Belzebel]

2 hours ago, Frucht said:

Before I start a few words to @Belzebel: You are promoting 18+ content on your social media, including your Discord (Guild Discord!) based around a Pokemon game with a usually rather young audience for your own personal gain. In that case, money and attention. Feel free to deny that, but we both know the truth, I have known you for years. Here is the issue though. As soon as somebody does not agree with your opinion or dislikes you for named reasons, he is a hater, jealous of you or whatnot and you genuinely believe that you are doing nothing wrong. You also genuinely believe that Staff is targetting you, but the truth is, you break rules all the time and usually get away with a warning. Maybe you should start to reflect whether or not everyone else is the problem, or maybe you and work on it?

Besides liking your thread and agreeing with what you said about staff, you mentioned me, so I will respond you.

I don't understand why you are talking about my 18+ content. I don't know what is the relevance of this topic. If I want money and attention, shouldn't that be my problem? I don't get it.

 

You say I do that in a Guild Discord, based around a Pokemon game. Is that a problem? What does this thread has to do with that? People click if they want. Also, all PRO related discords I join has a NSFW channel where they post things a lot more... graphic. You pointing only to me is the proof I'm the target. Even Staff discord has a NSFW channel, and you know it lol.

 

Oh, you mentioned my audience btw.

Only 5.5% of it is under 18. You guys REALLY need to stop taking information out of your third eye, and come to me with real facts. It's starting to annoy me.

 

Also, you know a little bit of me for.. what? a few months? You don't know me enough. You only know what I show, and thats not even 1% of what I am.

If people are jealous, haters, whatever, I don't care. I don't care about people. I care about me, about what I do and the ones who support me. If I want attention and money or not, it is my problem. Actually, I don't see any problem with that at all. If no one is getting hurt and no laws are being broken, I don't even know why you are even mentioning it.

 

My close friends disagree with me all the time. We call each other out all the time. I don't have any problem with improving and learning. My main concern is the game, the place I spend time and money on. Unfortunately staff is part of that, and they have the power to enhance and ruin a game. So I still don't know why you talk about me. Staff is the topic, not me.

 

Other than that, congrats for having the balls to say what many others are afraid to.

 

 

THINGS I THINK SHOULD BE IMPROVED BETWEEN STAFF AND PLAYERS RELATIONSHIP

I already mentioned and showed the evidences I could of staff taunting me to start drama, and celebrating when I get punished. I just don't agree with this behaviour from staff, and that's what I want to see improved.

 

About my toxic behaviour, that's on me, and believe me, I never stopped reflecting on my actions. I need help from staff though. I need them to stop taunting me. That will help me a lot. I need them to stop waiting for chaos to happen. I need them to warn once, and if they continue, mute. Otherwise it will be hard for me to believe staff doesn't want drama to happen.

 

I was staff before, and I remember being in voice chat with some of them including mods and heard one of them saying "Ah.. im to lazy to deal with this" while people where avoiding filters and insulting each other in Battle chat. He legit waiting until things went upside down. I won't mention any names, but I wasnt the only one in the VC. The ones who were there know it. Deny it if you want, you guys know it happens.

 

Another thing is.. Wally, I respect you like a daddy. I only get upset with the ones I care about. All I want is you to be more.. approachable. Discuss changes with your staff team. Don't just change something out of nowhere with no discussions. Believe me, I know the impulses of having the power to change, add and remove whatever I want. But, it is important to let the ones who help you keep the game alive have impact in your choices too. Ofc, it is your game, you do whatever you want, but that's just what I feel should be better for the game.

Also, please.. the layers. I will never stop bothering you about this. :v

 

I'm not trying to rule anyone, I'm just giving my opinion on how to improve our relationship.

 

And please guys, stop mentioning me about my outside business. I only mentioned it because Keita did, and I expected it to end there, but it continued with other players quoting it and I kept responding. But now, let's end the topic about it, ok? This thread is not the place for this. If you don't like it, if you want to insult me or whatever, DM me. Go hate me there all you want. Don't do this here, I don't want more problems.

 

Alright, NOW this is my last post. smh

Edited July 2, 2021 by Belzebel

[Cyanirl]

 

just posting that here

[Saintebaguette]

1 hour ago, Frucht said:

Before I start a few words to @Belzebel: You are promoting 18+ content on your social media, including your Discord (Guild Discord!) based around a Pokemon game with a usually rather young audience for your own personal gain. In that case, money and attention

Patreon have it's own measures of age verification, as you stated "her social media", "her Discord", she is not obliged to follow Pro Discord guidelines, since as the rules states "stuff outside pro discord isn't taken in consideration". If she was to blame on that, several staves would have to suffer punishment for racism jokes, homophobia, xenophobia, +18 publications. 
The difference, is that her work is that, to subscribe on patron you need age verification, if the person lies on it, their parents are the one to blame. 

 

1 hour ago, Frucht said:

We started to break our own recruitment rules, accepted a bunch of people very, very immature, incapable of speaking understandable English in roles where exactly that is a necessit

The players see that reflection a lot, and many like belzebel and sometimes even mylself

 

1 hour ago, Frucht said:

Another thing are all the empty promises. I get it, you work on something and get excited and make an announcement that it will come to the game soon. But it often takes months and in some cases years for it to happen, lack of communication and organisation in the team and the constant leaving/recruiting DUE TO all the issues. Did anyone ever wonder where Astrella is? I can promise you, this could have been finished a year ago, easily. People get the lead on the project, do nothing for months and then leave with no progress. Over and over.

Talking about organisation, the events do not have to be delayed all the time, the team just got lazy and unorganized with last minute submissions. We often didn't even see the requested art before the event started.

I suggest making a "battle frontier", its a gen3 feature that still existed till Unova. Endless battles with some rewards, something to keep players busy without CD "Ah but we cant make another coin, or give tons of rewards, will ruin economy". No one did Emerald game from the start till the end just for the items, but to reach battle frontier, remember, back in the time, was common 50-60h + playing, just to reach the endgame, the rewards were terrible, but still, was fun. I talked to @Walrosskastanie @Cames and they loved the idea (and told me to post as suggestion) so its kinda my fault. but its an example, pvE players want something to do over and over that is not hunting pokes or doing bosses once a week, regardless of the reward.
 

 

1 hour ago, Frucht said:

A good chunk of Staff also needs to be disrespectful and even insulting in public chats. Guys, you represent the game? If nobody knows you are Staff, then go ahead and act all monkey, but not as representatives.

Totally agreed, players don't care if you are you, the moment you speak, using a staff role, you're representing Pro Staff, the higher your position, the heavier the weight of your words, that affects directly players.

@Qeight, mostly of players don't have the SLIGHTEST idea of what you do, that's a fact, we (i speak for myself and probably for some staffs(i guess?)) know the importance of your work and u do an amazing job, for real, your work is essential, but you need to communicate to players more, show how the improvements you did will improve their game life, why you did X thing or why u haven't done Y thing. The excitation you throw in your work, you need to hype us too. I know is tiring some times, but players want to understand. The critics about you here, are the reflection of that, u get so tired of so repetitive questions and stuff that you get pissed and all go downhill. 
Like i said in a previous post, an amazing example that you listen to players was when i dmed you asking a furfrou spawn, and you totally did it. That relationship player x staff was amazing for me, same when i suggested another spawn and you said NO and why, u showed another point of view i didn't had and i totally agreed. I believe most players want that. Don't take the critics here as a personal attack, but as something that should/could be fixed.
Thanks for reading this.
 

[Belzebel]

34 minutes ago, Cyanirl said:

 

just posting that here

Then show me the real facts, genius. Lying your age is against the law btw.

If you don't believe the youtube graphics are accurate, then you probably have the real ones?

 

Can you CONFIRM my audience is under 18? Or is that what you want to believe just so you have a reason to see me wrong? If you can't confirm, you should NOT be saying "her audience is under 18", unless you have proof. Show me the proof. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Belzebel

[Deita]

2 hours ago, Frucht said:

I thought I will give my two cents here as a former Staff and quite the old player (some people might know me as Chris) as well, especially since this is just a unnecessary witchhunt at this point.

 

Before I start a few words to @Belzebel: You are promoting 18+ content on your social media, including your Discord (Guild Discord!) based around a Pokemon game with a usually rather young audience for your own personal gain. In that case, money and attention. Feel free to deny that, but we both know the truth, I have known you for years. Here is the issue though. As soon as somebody does not agree with your opinion or dislikes you for named reasons, he is a hater, jealous of you or whatnot and you genuinely believe that you are doing nothing wrong. You also genuinely believe that Staff is targetting you, but the truth is, you break rules all the time and usually get away with a warning. Maybe you should start to reflect whether or not everyone else is the problem, or maybe you and work on it?

 

 

Now, a few words directly towards the team. Staff in general has huge problems and did so for many years. Sadly, they did not get resolved and just got worse. Probably 2/3 of the team swapped entirely during my time and most of the people I actually liked to work with got so fed up that they left, me included.

 

So, what exactly was going on? I will explain my experience and view, so this is subjective.

Every decision has to go through @Walrosskastanie, if he does not like the idea, it will usually get denied. It is irrelevant whether the entire team proposes that it would benefit the game or not. In my case, that was CS stuff (basically everything you interact with, aka press spacebar), but it is not limited to that specifically. Some quality check is totally fine and needed, but you usually do not get through that easily. Most of the time, many pings and dm's were necessary to even get a response. Wally, I talked to you so often about that and it was an issue when I joined and when I left. You are massively overloaded and need to distribute some work/decision making to others not named @Cames who is busy enough as well. Somebody has to be trustworthy enough at this point.

 

 

Next major issue:

The team itself. Basically, the people.

I am very sorry if i hurt somebody in this paragraph, but I always prefered telling the truth over being liked and pretending like all of you do great work and are there for good reason. Basically, half the team has the complete wrong intentions and the personalities you find there, showing especially when some got promoted to "higher" positions is just disgusting. For example, powertripping (which is rather common inside a specific role :d) ala God complex, threatening people to make sure they get banned ingame and from Staff for literally no reason other than them being mad at you. I got enough screenshots, but I wont publish that.

 

Next up, a good amount joining as testers (sorry its just most common there than elsewhere) just for the rewards while not even trying to find a bug, reading the dialogue or anything else other than spamming through our scripts and saying its all working. On top of that, many new people completely unqualified for the position, in fact so much in our CS team that we had to introduce a new role called "Story Writer", because half of the CS team suddenly didn't speak even decent english. We started to break our own recruitment rules, accepted a bunch of people very, very immature, incapable of speaking understandable English in roles where exactly that is a necessity. It got to the point where we went from usually quite bugless scripts with barely bug reports, to the bug reports channel having hundreds of just grammar corrections for even the simplest sentences. This doesn't even include the huge amount of the dumbest bugs just showing that the CS didn't even check his script once for himself.

Also, a bunch of people tried to force their opinion on in game decisions including certain PvP decisions for their own advantage. Somebody really needed a Excadrill, so has to argue that we have to add Exca to 3 bosses, Excavations and headbutt. On top of that, we also improve the tier of the spawn and give some reasoning, which doesnt even makes sense, but that is okay. (This example did not happen, but stuff like this sadly happened all the time and I talked multiple times with @Keita about it, it improved slightly)

 

About the Staff - Player relation:

If you actually think there is a very mature discussion inside Staff, you are wrong. Players are being made fun of, are being treated differently depending on how liked they are etc. Always was like this and never changed. For example, @Waleed1301 was the most active and one of the nicest people with a little bad backstory (not even close to being as bad as mine who exploited the game once) but was stamped by half the team as immature and annoying. @Keita wanted to give him a shot, but many threatened to leave the team or started insulting each other and him if he ever dares to join the team. And guess what, he got declined even though he would have been probably the best out of all the CC's right now. Fun fact, if you searched "waleed" in the general chat, it was so bad that they wanted to clear the entire chat when he almost joined.

 

Another thing are all the empty promises. I get it, you work on something and get excited and make an announcement that it will come to the game soon. But it often takes months and in some cases years for it to happen, lack of communication and organisation in the team and the constant leaving/recruiting DUE TO all the issues. Did anyone ever wonder where Astrella is? I can promise you, this could have been finished a year ago, easily. People get the lead on the project, do nothing for months and then leave with no progress. Over and over.

Talking about organisation, the events do not have to be delayed all the time, the team just got lazy and unorganized with last minute submissions. We often didn't even see the requested art before the event started.

 

If you really care about improving any relation, you would have to kick half of the Staff team including many in higher positions, which will never happen, might even be impossible and therefore results in good people leaving and the ones with bad intentions staying. Its rather funny that everyone I knew with a good education, that I considered as smart, left one after another. I could name some impressive people I got to known there, but I will keep that private as well, they probably know.

 

A good chunk of Staff also needs to be disrespectful and even insulting in public chats. Guys, you represent the game? If nobody knows you are Staff, then go ahead and act all monkey, but not as representatives. This is the actual witchhunt in this channel right now, but @Qeight isn't even the biggest problem there. Felix, personal message again, I told you to relax and be atleast a bit more reputable in public, you really have to work on this since the work you are doing is awesome. Funny enough, I was the black sheep for being especially disrespectful inside Staff for above named reasons all the time as well. But at the end, we are like this because we want to improve and work on the game, other than the people we get so mad at for getting in our way with their ego and stupidity.

 

There is actually way more, but this is more than enough insight for people who want to know the current Staff situation and for Staff to hopefully realize why the community dislikes you so much. We have had such a good team back then and it all went more and more downhill in almost no time, but I told you almost all of it already.

 

PS: Not proofreading this one, sorry for mistakes.

Just wanted to say thank you for making this post, and hopefully more people will read it and give it some thought. I don't usually post in these topics because I feel like they are always unproductive and have so much unnecessary drama. Hopefully that isn't the case here, this post has my support and hopefully we can see some action to make this amazing game better!

Edited July 2, 2021 by DeIta

[Belzebel]

If you guys use "we lie our age" as an argument, you are the ones with less than 2 braincells lol. Lying your age is legit against the law. You guys are trying to blame on me something your parents can't control. This is more than ridiculous and that's what staff is defending and supporting with memes and reactions.

 

And btw, why are players allowed to send zipped files in this thread? What if they send virus or porn? You guys are focusing on the wrong stuff.

You all goofy yo.

[Hawluchaa]

Off topic posts, posts meant purely to insult and any other non related attachments will be deleted and punished if needed. Keep your comments related to the topics or dont comment at all. 

 

Have a nice day

[Madtrainer]

I am a bit scared to say that, but I personnaly never understood this hate against Q8.

I remember him from Yellow Server, he was very cool and helpfull.

He probly do and did some mistakes, as everybody.

It must be, obviously, very hard to stay respectful with people who arent.

Dosent mean he can be rude freely, but it dosent mean he is a bad staff either.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Madtrainer

[Grayfbust]

"People lie about their age"

True, but you can't blame Belzebel for their actions
Not to mention that most kids watch 18+ content anyways, whats gonna stop them?

 

That being said, can we move away from 18+ content? It's irrelevant to any and everything here.
What people do in their freetime or as their work is up to them