pvp rules Ranked PvP Rules.

[Shuldbdoinhw]

[mention]PreHax[/mention] You couldn't teach a Gliscor defog in any generation after gen 4, but Gliscor couldn't be obtained with a hidden ability in any generation before 5, so it's impossible without hacking to get a gliscor with that move and ability, hence why it's banned from competitive play.

[Prehax]

[mention]Shuldbdoinhw[/mention], does that matter in terms of it being legal or not? I haven't seen a Defog Gliscor in ages, actually I have never seen one since the Defog TM Teacher was implemented and I played more than enough since then.

Tail Glow Phione is possible given it is in the Event Move tutor; I don't necessarily agree on banning it because it's legit a trash pokemon but following the logic of the reason why Defog Gliscor was banned as well (on top of Unaware+Softboiled which we voted on), Phione + Tail Glow should be banned and I am looking forward to it being banned otherwise this precedent is worth nothing.

 

It doesn't really matter where Gliscor could learn it, Phione could NEVER learn Tail Glow

[Shuldbdoinhw]

[mention]PreHax[/mention] Phione w/ tail glow being banned wouldn't fall under the same precedent as the H/A Pokemon knowing earlier generation moves that were removed from their move pool at a later date. But that doesn't mean I don't agree with you (It probably should be banned), just pointing out that the correlation between those two isn't accurate.

The reason they skipped the Gliscor vote is because it fell under the same exact precedent as the unaware-soft boil vote. Your complaint is about a Pokemon knowing a move that was never in it's move pool to begin with and that the explanation for it being banned should be the same as a Pokemon knowing a move that is impossible to legally obtain with the combination of a hidden ability, nonetheless I'm just trying to make sure we clarify there was a difference between the two and if you want a stronger argument to why it should be banned it's best to clarify that we know the difference, between the two.

[Pugs]

yeah ablities that lower accrucacy shouldnt be ignored they should be banned too

[Prehax]

[mention]Shuldbdoinhw[/mention]

In light of the latest implemention of the ability Unaware, that created a question, should we block the usage of a pokemon with that ability and able to use Softboiled (The notorious example is: Clefable)

 

This combo is not avaiable in the original games, as you can see by investigating the most used page of competitive pokemon battles, Smogon.

Therefore, lets do this in a healthy and organized way and vote in this topic.

 

Towards the Gliscor/Defog case, I will make a new poll towards that case, to have 2 discussions with each topic.

 

We didn't vote on that explanation, we voted on it not being available in the original games; which is true.

I see where you are coming from but the precedent is the same nonetheless. This argument was brought up the most "it's illegal" "it's not possible in the original games".

Your version and the version they put in the rules is correct but not something we have voted on.

 

A lot of players voted given the reason that it's not possible in the original games, which makes this a precedent and this will ban Tail Glow on Phione otherwise the entire vote was a fail and we once again voted for nothing.

[Bladermagician]

@PreHax Phione w/ tail glow being banned wouldn't fall under the same precedent as the H/A Pokemon knowing earlier generation moves that were removed from their move pool at a later date. But that doesn't mean I don't agree with you (It probably should be banned), just pointing out that the correlation between those two isn't accurate.

The reason they skipped the Gliscor vote is because it fell under the same exact precedent as the unaware-soft boil vote. Your complaint is about a Pokemon knowing a move that was never in it's move pool to begin with and that the explanation for it being banned should be the same as a Pokemon knowing a move that is impossible to legally obtain with the combination of a hidden ability, nonetheless I'm just trying to make sure we clarify there was a difference between the two and if you want a stronger argument to why it should be banned it's best to clarify that we know the difference, between the two.

 

Well the precedent is definitely there for Extremespeed non-ada Entei and Aura Sphere non-rash Raikou.

[Naoizdabest]

Agree that poision heal + defog Glisscor doesn't exist in smogon but there are alot of thing this game doesnt follow smogon rules like banning Unaware + Soft-Boiled.

https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue37/ou-defog

list of good defogger in ou . Latios, latias: not much ppl have this. Mandibuzz: no way i play this when foul play not coded. Mega Scizor and Zapdos doesn't exist. Skarmory: ppl like to play it as hazard setter than defogger and also there are alot magnezone and we can't see opponent team like in smogon to avoid trapping by predict switch so skarmory is never a safe pokemon to play. Mew: the only good defogger but too bad it is legendary.So why do we ban poision heal + defog Glisscor, it not a stalling strategy, It not an OP move set since there are alot good moves to consider for glisscor, so it must sacrifice 1 of those good moves to replace with defog. We are missing alot of good defogger and rapid spinner already and ppl strategy is like keep spamming hazzard to win.

I vote for unban poision heal + defog Glisscor or let us make a real voting for it.

[Hahahaka]

From the start of this discussion, revo never say Unaware + Soft-boiled should be banned since it's illegal in original game. [glow=yellow]It was because it is OP.[/glow]

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78216

idk who and how the BIG ISSUE "illegal in original game should be also illegal in PRO" first introduced in the discussion of overpower-ness of Unaware + Soft-boiled. BUT this is nonsense.

You are playing an online game, a fan made game dude. Please open your mind.

I agree with revo's point that Unaware + Soft-boiled is OP but not because it is illegal in [glow=yellow]ANOTHER GAME[/glow].

Admin should not bring any restriction from any other game [glow=yellow]just like you refuse to bring all PvP rules from Smogon.[/glow]

PRO is independent. We have our own environment.

[Shuldbdoinhw]

From the start of this discussion, revo never say Unaware + Soft-boiled should be banned since it's illegal in original game. [glow=yellow]It was because it is OP.[/glow]

https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78216

idk who and how the BIG ISSUE "illegal in original game should be also illegal in PRO" first introduced in the discussion of overpower-ness of Unaware + Soft-boiled. BUT this is nonsense.

You are playing an online game, a fan made game dude. Please open your mind.

I agree with revo's point that Unaware + Soft-boiled is OP but not because it is illegal in [glow=yellow]ANOTHER GAME[/glow].

Admin should not bring any restriction from any other game [glow=yellow]just like you refuse to bring all PvP rules from Smogon.[/glow]

PRO is independent. We have our own environment.

 

Why are you claiming that I'm being close minded? Lol.

 

"8. An Unaware Clefable with Softboiled and a Poison Heal Gliscor with Defog, respectively, are banned from ranked play. This is due to the introduction of Hidden Abilities in Gen5 and those moves being removed from the respective Pokemon's movepool in Gen5"

 

First of all I'm literally reading the rule, which the admins were nice enough to add the reason behind why they added the rule in the rule itself, so yes the move on the hidden ability was removed solely because it isn't obtainable in the actual game.

 

(The reason the rule was implemented may be different than the reason it was brought to their attention, don't make the mistake of assuming the reason it was brought to their attention is the reason they're banning it it from the ranked.)

 

Did it ever cross your mind that the original game developers had a reason to remove it from their moveset? Like they didn't just accidentally avoid having an OP combination like unaware+softboil. A lot of thought goes into game development and I guarantee that was a conscious decision to remove it from their movepool when the hidden ability was being released.

 

Also the competitive rules in this game are a collection of the reoccuring rules you'll see in other games, with the addition of their own rules made to compensate bugs/ and uncoded moves and abilities.

 

I understand PRO is it's own Game, But saying competitive rules from other games are irrelavent is a bit ignorant seeing as every rule that's not involving a coding bug was adopted from other games. So using another rule set to start a conversation helps people understand that it's a conversation worth having.

 

 

[mention]hahahaka[/mention] ^^

[Hahahaka]

[mention]Shuldbdoinhw[/mention] um...actually I didn't reply to your comment. I was not talking to you.

I posted that simply because now I can see how the Unaware + Soft-boiled vote resulting in going somewhere not related.

As I said, the discussion of the vote started from "the overpower-ness of Unaware + Soft-boiled".

But now the reasoning of the vote forces us to vote "the overpower-ness of Unaware + Soft-boiled" and "illegal in original game should be also illegal in PRO" these 2 issues at the same time.

What I think is, the result of the vote has already created many other questions that we don't need.

 

Poison Heal Gliscor + Defog - illegal in original game

OP? no

Phione + Tail Glow - illegal in original game

OP? no

Legendary Dogs Event Moves + the nature that it appears in original game - any other natures are illegal in original game

OP? no

 

The reasoning of the vote should be only asking whether it is OP or not.