Idkup

Ah, you're referring to people taking themselves out with recoil to place (presumably a Clefable) in range. This definitely does have a minor impact on the way Calm Mind Clefable (and other defensive setup) must play - against strong recoil attacks, it is best to conserve it for a few turns. If your team has already chipped the recoil Pokemon down to the % where it can knock itself out, and Clefable would otherwise sweep, Clefable will still sweep, just a few turns later. Stealth Rock not going off is heavily impactful, but how often are Pokemon going to faint to Life Orb / recoil in the earlygame when it matters most? In Iron Barbs / Rough Skin's case, you chose to use those abilities knowing that they possess this weakness. Chansey should never be in on Weavile anyways.

I would then ask what kind of Semi/Stall can't tank one additional Life Orb hit without having to press Recover.

I mean, I've played over 400 games on ranked utilizing some kind of slow team which in theory should be heavily impacted by this bug and never seen it, much less had it cost me a game... that should count for something, right?

I run full stall and semistall in well over half my games. Never have I had this bug impact me, as it's not difficult to play around.

There comes a point where the effect of a bug on the metagame is frivolous and completely pointless to ban. Banning Life Orb and Ferrothorn would warp the meta far more than this interaction would - it's not terribly difficult to play around, and affects perhaps one game in 200. Should we also ban Flare Blitz as it cannot burn, preventing it from rendering Clefable status-immune? Should we ban all damaging moves because critical hits go through Eviolite and Assault Vest? Should we ban all grass type status moves because of a bugged interaction with Sap Sipper?

Volcarona receives Hurricane, which it can spam under the rain. Will be adding Serperior to fastmons, that was an oversight.

@OP: I came in here assuming I would find a metagame discussion and an attempt at a viable anti-stall archetype. Instead I found an attempt at banning all skill. Stall is the playstyle which requires by far the most skill to play. If you think ladder Regenerators are stall, you've seen nothing yet. You are complaining about bulky Balance / Semistall, which are not difficult to break with offensive pressure. I encourage you to look up guides on defeating "stall" or lists of stallbreakers and wallbreakers. The narrowest mistake made by a stall player will result in one of these dangerous offensive Pokemon running through their team. Choice Scarf Togekiss is the most common exploitable Pokemon in this metagame. Force itself to lock into something other than Air Slash, and enjoy your free turns. It does not hit hard enough for its PP to flinch through its true counters, perfect RNG or otherwise. I see your signature claiming "Power of Neverused." Perhaps if you tried OU or even UU wallbreakers you would see why they are so commonly run. It takes a good player to raise poor Pokemon into the limelight. An inexperienced one attempting to do the same makes a fool of both parties.

nah, Noctowl > Fearow tbh, 30% Air Slash flinch more like 80% ban Noctowl

Only Pokemon ranked B- or above on my viability list are included. Here is the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C2vR3497vIBXJ6lhHtMXJHvfcjiUa8MYtmZWrUN9OnY/edit?usp=sharing

You can view the list here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7IOKm7XMRnJ8gqggvpyGZcLqB7oc5Gts86GpSZXUQI/edit?usp=sharing Thanks to: Ironcoque, anthonyliu, dangarangs, Fairview This is our take on viability rankings and we believe it to be better than the one currently on these forums. Analyses to come soon.

Bumping this thread. Feel free to PM me (or DM me on discord (idkup#3972)) for any questions.

Here is a compendium of Pokemon suitable for various roles in PvP. Not all Pokemon on this list are advisable or even viable, but they are capable of performing their listed roles to some degree. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PPchY6H-Wbc3XtSBoREQ0FNIcCrjjF-Fc8Bzx8gZhLY/edit?usp=sharing Thanks to: anthonyliu for being sarcastic and unhelpful providing a substantial amount of suggestions ironcoque for providing some suggestions wannes for reminding me that Sand Stream Gigalith exists bulbapedia and serebii for their sprites WARNING: ELEVEN PAGES LONG This is my take on a comprehensive teambuilding guide. It takes a different perspective than most others on the forum. The link is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cx_A6fsuUC6BPBP5CPT7ibpNSab-Z9HlZskD1q5MQ8w/edit?usp=sharing I go through the most important concepts in teambuilding and detail how to answer all archetypes in the game. People who complain about Regenerator "stall," this guide is for you. If anything is wrong, outdated, or needs fixing, please let me know.

I see a lot of people with teams that simply do not answer one major threat or another. Here's a google doc guide to make checking off threats easier. However, I don't address HOW to answer these threats - that is for you to figure out yourself :) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y1qZ3-Llrxifm2uS5iNb-5anhfMmN-xybyTMfS-CpH4/edit?usp=sharing

I agree with the vast majority of what expendable99 is saying. However, it is worth noting that poor attempts at semistall are relatively prevalent on the ladder, and that Scizor absolutely feasts on those teams. It also finds a way to make itself useful in more or less every match (unless the opponent has a defensive Volcarona, which shuts it down completely). Latios's CS set has the drawback of being a momentum drain as types are immune to both its STABs - this means it requires scouting before it can start dropping nukes, unfortunately. It's strong, but it also gives the opponent a free turn to do whatever they like afterward - never a good idea. Blissey is bad and should be in the C ranks at best, as Chansey is better in every way. If you're really that worried about Gengar run Psychic on it (lmfao), but Gengar doesn't have Shadow Tag so it hardly matters. Gyarados's overall utility (Intimidate = the ability to soft-check a number of physical attackers) means it continues to contribute even if it cannot sweep. Moxie Gyarados is generally subpar. Don't think it should drop. Agree in principle with everything else.

Soul Dew (in its gen 7 incarnation) is a decent Life Orb replacement for Latios on some sets. Would be nice to have it available as an option.

Shed Shell works once. Shadow Tag works the entire game. No.

You do not dedicate a full teamslot to "information." Aggressive teams should be running faster scarfers than Togekiss, Magnezone to remove problematic defensive steels, strong priority, or possibly even the Tyranitar/Excadrill sand core, which destroys Togekiss. All ScarfKiss can really do is clean up against Balance / Bulky Offense, which isn't worth much, because every relevant scarfer in the game can do the same. It's also a complete and utter liability against semi-stall and stall, where you probably run yourself out of Air Slash PP before denting much of anything...

Choice Scarf Togekiss is honestly really bad. As long as you have something that renders Air Slash a non-factor, you're set - (Chansey, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone etc.) - because Togekiss's coverage moves are weak. It can't afford to lock itself into anything else at the expense of immediately becoming setup bait for dangerous Pokemon such as Volcarona and various Dragon Dancers. It's also completely useless against stall as it can't reliably flinch defensive mons long enough to prevent them from healing up. tl;dr: Choice Scarf Togekiss is bad. If you're losing to it you need to take a good look at your playstyle and team. Run Stallbreaker Togekiss instead (Nasty Plot / Air Slash / Roost / Heal Bell or Thunder Wave)

Ice Shard should be on the slash. Low Kick is too essential, you don't want to get walled by steels and Tyranitar. Honestly, I don't believe Poison Jab deserves a mention - Swords Dance can take over against slow teams lategame and enables you to utilize switches that Weavile often forces. Item should be Life Orb.

revo why the hell are you encouraging people to use blissey chansey >>>> blissey pls fix 3/10 (otherwise these teams are decent i guess)

To avoid a repeat of last year, how long is this projected to last?

I haven't played since August (college btw), and just wanted to quickly ask what's changed - if anyone could give me a quick rundown of new content that would be appreciated :)

neutral haven't had an opportunity to playtest but if stall becomes an issue ban arena trap instead

Good idea.

Staff deserve at least one perfect mon for the work they do. There's little difference in counterplay against a 6x31 and a 6x25 or even 6x21. Implying otherweise is honestly disingenuous. Perfect mons are not the issue. The only issue is staff using Pokemon that regular users have no access to. Frankly, I don't mind at all if staff use six spawned mons, as long as they are catchable normally. --- also i agree with most of shamac's post, but nerfing ranked pvp rewards? I can't motivate myself to ladder already, no need to make it worse