Idkup

You seem to think that I am staff. I am not. I cannot lock your posts, nor can I reject your proposals outright. Therefore, it is necessary for me to demonstrate why your ideas are fundamentally flawed, not just to you, but to those who actually make these decisions. Besides, most people prefer discussion rather than having their posts locked with no explanation of why their idea is bad.

You heavily implied that Mold Breaker was a solution for all problematic abilities. Please quit the doublespeak.

Mold Breaker only applies to defensive abilities. Speed Boost is not a defensive ability.

I am literally providing you with off-meta sets that either I or my friends have seen success with, while you complain about not being able to use broken mons like Speed Boost Blaziken in the name of platitudes like "meta diversity." If I can win games with a Corsola on my team, a strong enough player should be able to succeed with whatever garbage they want, provided they actually know what they're doing. As for pretending that Whimsicott, Corsola, Porygon2, and Rotom-H see any regular play whatsoever, good riddance. This is the stuff you play if you hate the meta and want to style on people. If you can't find anything new in a Blaziken-less, Dugtrio-less meta, good luck trying to experiment when +2 Blaziken High Jump Kicks are flying around at Scarfed speed tiers and Arena Trap nullifies your wallbreakers at a whim.

On one hand, it definitely is irritating to see people be rewarded for consistently average play. (PRO ladder system definitely rewards grinding) On the other, your winrate is its own reward - you can spend a lot less time grinding PvP and achieve the same result. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter that often, but why not just give coins to everyone involved in a tie at 25th?

The diversity is yours to find. In case you weren't aware: Blaziken is banned because no one wants to be forced to run Azumarill / Gyarados / Slowbro / Cofagrigus / Gastrodon on every team for a 50% chance at stopping it, and it renders offensive builds nigh-impossible. Isn't this the opposite of what you want? Please do take a moment to consider the implications before making ridiculous suggestions. The PRO meta is reasonably dynamic currently with plenty of good sets either completely or relatively unexplored. Just because other people are playing the same thing doesn't mean you have to as well. Of course, this will probably negatively affect your winrate, because without a proper understanding of the meta, you cannot effectively counter it. Best of luck. Here's some interesting, yet solid sets for you to try, if you actually want to attempt to play something different: Offensive Options Whimsicott @ Leftovers Ability: Prankster Nature: Bold EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD - Memento - Moonblast - Stun Spore - Taunt Salamence @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate Nature: Naive EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 SpA - Outrage - Iron Tail - Fire Blast - Earthquake Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs Ability: Levitate Nature: Modest EVs: 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP - Overheat - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [iCE] - Trick / Volt Switch Venomoth @ Black Sludge Ability: Tinted Lens Nature: Timid EVs: 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP - Quiver Dance - Bug Buzz - Roost - Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb Tyrantrum @ Lum Berry Ability: Rock Head Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 HP - Dragon Dance - Head Smash - Outrage - Earthquake / Fire Fang Breloom @ Toxic Orb Ability: Poison Heal Nature: Jolly EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 HP - Spore - Superpower / Facade - Seed Bomb / Facade - Swords Dance / Mach Punch Defensive Options Azumarill @ Leftovers Ability: Sap Sipper Nature: Calm EVs: 252 HP 252 SpD 4 Def - Perish Song - Whirlpool - Protect - Rest Gastrodon @ Leftovers Ability: Storm Drain Nature: Relaxed EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD - Scald - Earthquake - Toxic - Recover Corsola @ Air Balloon Ability: Regenerator Nature: Bold EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD - Scald - Toxic - Stealth Rock - Recover Mantine @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb Nature: Calm EVs: 252 HP 252 SpD 4 Def - Scald - Defog - Roost - Toxic Gligar @ Eviolite Ability: Immunity Nature: Impish EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD - Earthquake - Roost - Defog - Knock Off / Toxic Porygon2 @ Eviolite Ability: Trace Nature: Calm EVs: 252 HP 120 Def 136 SpD - Recover - Tri Attack / Ice Beam - Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt - Toxic edit: added more sets

im being harassed furthermore, protean greninja is basically only not banned because no one good enough has taken it upon themselves to abuse its ridiculous offensive spikes set as for speed boost blaziken, lmfao

Charti Berry seems to trigger on the use of Stealth Rock, when it should only work against damaging Rock-type moves. Observed during Advent Boss fight, but was typing in discord and couldn't grab a screenshot - I'll try to replicate it. This problem likely extends to all other resist berries as well.

I'll be impressed if someone hits top 25 running an all-legendary team. I don't think it's possible, Weavile and Bisharp 6-0 you

Hydro Pump is a good move. As for Ambipom, l o l Done. The list should remain a reasonable indicator of power level in PRO, as afaik nothing major has been introduced since the last update. Once I get a feel for the meta again (probably Winter break lol) I'll revisit this.

A gamebreaking-ly strong mechanic should 100% be locked behind a paywall. Can't see any way this goes wrong. (The strongest power creep PRO PvP is getting in years should not be purchased by CC.)

Yes, but no one on Smogon can be called into question for not banning a Pokemon because they have an epic IV one ingame, since on a simulator there's no time investment in obtaining Pokemon. A council on PRO would also have a major impact on the economy, as banned Pokemon have no market.

Well, we're already seeing arguments over hypothetical conflicts of interest... How do supporters of a council propose to solve the problem posed by drama arising from favoritism / corruption / conflicts of interest, both real and imagined? This thread has reminded me of drama caused in a guild tournament because of a single controversial ban. It seems to me that unless this issue is resolved satisfactorily, it is better for players to informally advise staff on their opinions of the metagame.

While I support the idea of a council in principle, it is important to realize that it is much easier to criticize someone else's decisions than to make the correct one on your own. Although a player council may have better overall skill than staff, it is far from given that they would always make the right decisions. Whenever the question of whether or not something should be banned has been put to forums, there has always been a lot of parroting Smogon and very little legitimate discussion. We see nonsensical reasonings from even Top 25 players, and a prevailing opinion that stall is the root of all evil. Furthermore, players all have their own biases. Combined with the relatively less formal setting of PRO PvP compared to Smogon, this could quickly result in controversy and chaos. (See the first attempt at banning Shadow Tag from the Ubers tier) This, to me, indicates that a council with final authority to ban (such as Gen VI UU Council) would be a terrible idea. However, as stated previously, PRO's "suspect tests" leave a lot to be desired. Thus, a council possessing only the ability to slate problematic factors for suspect tests would be no different from staff putting them up to vote and be subject to the same weaknesses (mob mentality, Blissey probably being banned within the week for no good reason, etc.) The council should therefore also be able to set the requirements for suspect tests. These tests should require an overwhelming supermajority (75%?) to overturn the status quo, to prevent abuse. Finally, the more power the council has, the more drama will inevitably ensue about someone's favorite Pokemon being banned / escaping the banhammer. edit: I wonder how many of the supporters just want to be on the council :^)

+1 just ban boosters

While Smogon refuses to unban Blaze Blaziken for the sake of a simple ruleset, our ruleset was anything but simple anyways. Might as well unban it.

Okay this is just dumb. 150 PvP coins without hitting ladder is 2-3 months worth of PvP. PvP shop is extremely inefficient for those that cannot hit ladder. Two to three months for one chance to reset one legendary's IVs. As far as PvP coins go, you either hit ladder or you aren't reasonably buying rerolls. Glossing over the fact that you expect people to repeat a tedious grind of hundreds of evos and hundreds of afk hours, alts are literally banned in pvp, so you can hardly decide on mid-season experimentation with Latias to test new ideas... While it is true that legendaries aren't the best Pokemon in the game, they tend to fill unique niches that other Pokemon simply cannot. Attempting to replace them makes teams significantly worse. Consider Hydreigon, often touted as "discount Latios": - It has Dark STAB instead of Psychic, and no access to Psyshock, severely hindering its ability to blow through special walls such as Chansey and Tentacruel. - It doesn't get Trick, heavily worsening the matchup of its choice sets against defensive teams. - It doesn't get Calm Mind, removing a powerful set in its entirety. - It doesn't get Defog. - Its Draco Meteor is marginally weaker. - Most importantly, its speed tier sucks. Base 98 compared to Latios's base 110 leaves it considerably weaker against aggressive teams unless scarfed. Life Orb and Specs Latios are powerful options because of their ability to rip through anything slower than them. Hydreigon is slower than a lot more than Latios is. Another common "discount" mon is Jolteon in place of Raikou. - Despite being faster, in PRO there are few notable threats between base 115 Speed and base 130 Speed, save the likes of Weavile and Alakazam. - It doesn't get Calm Mind, and so has a much more difficult time capitalizing on switches. - It's marginally weaker. - It has no bulk and dies to priority extremely easily. - No Aura Sphere, Extrasensory, or basically any coverage options outside of HP Ice and Shadow Ball (lol) These types of replacements don't cut it in high-level PvP. Even Pokemon that are garbage in general (like Uxie) are irreplaceable in the archetypes in which they find homes: nothing consistently provides the sheer utility for Trick Room teams that Uxie can. However, no one's gonna ditch Azelf or start a new account just to obtain one - Trick Room is a mediocre meme team at best, and if you want to see more of that sort of diversity on ladder, make it easier to access.

agree, same goes for the eon duo. latios and latias have unique niches because of the disparity in power and bulk and their slightly different learnsets, would be nice to get both

Message me or any other officer ingame or on discord (idkup#3972) when you guys are available. :)

None of this is true. None of it.

Keep it banned. Uncompetitive, restricts teambuilding, ruins stallbreakers. On ladder last season and many times before.

Honestly, I'd prefer 30 seconds. 20 seconds is fine, but Team Preview is the most important turn in every metagame with it. Players should be given time to consider.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mDtJhXY_UFcjtaeQwe-y2Smg8RGXOzPL/view?usp=sharing Patch Notes 1 - idkup 0

showdown has not banned or considered a sand veil ban since generation 5's permanent sand.

Once again, this rewards only players that already consistently win. The problem with PvP is that it's not very rewarding to start.