Idkup

nah not normally, but was the final straw to show a certain person that this issue is serious, esspecially since we tried to move on and work towards a better guild to guild atmosphere. Well then excuse me while I make three posts about people I don't like on yellow. It's a vicious cycle and not one that should be continued.

Does inter-guild drama really belong on forums? There's plenty of people I wouldn't like to work with but that doesn't mean I go around posting this just to rile things up.

Can confirm have way too much fun locking down opponents with taunt + toxic gliscor, and judging by the angry PMs I've gotten, my opponents aren't! Ban fun.

????????? what do those words mean jk jk agree 100%

Since the other thread is only for voting, I thought I'd make this thread for discussion with Chappy's approval. This is to be the place for all suspect-related discussion, keep it off the Discord. The entities currently being suspected are the Pokemon Genesect and Blaziken, as well as a re-test of the ability Shadow Tag. Keep in mind that Download, Genesect's only ability, does work but is coded incorrectly. It still gives Genesect a stat boost on switchin, but it is the opposite of the one it should be given. This, in my opinion, makes the ability more powerful. You can read my thoughts on Genesect and Shadow Tag here (beware, 4 page long wall of text): https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413157#p413157 Please keep all opinions respectful, and refrain from ad hominem attacks.

https://imgur.com/a/BH6xj https://imgur.com/a/K4PGE wasn't gonna ladder until late season but guess i have to now BAN Genesect BAN Shadow Tag ABSTAIN Blaziken Genesect Genesect is nothing if not versatile. Download gives Genesect a boost to an offensive stat whenever it enters the field, capable of powering up its U-Turn to be nearly as strong as Choice Band Scizor's, except at the ridiculous speed tier of 489, wielding a Choice Scarf. Genesect's arsenal includes Iron Head, U-Turn, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, X-Scissor, Explosion, and even Shift Gear, Extreme Speed, and Blaze Kick by event. Two Pokemon currently legal in PRO can safely switch into it - Defensive variants of Volcarona, and defensive variants of Arcanine. However, both are deathly weak to Stealth Rock, and Arcanine has significantly limited recovery due to Morning Sun's 8 PP and the abundance of Drizzle and Sand Stream. Pokemon that may be able to tank a hit and retaliate such as Jirachi and Milotic are no checks to Genesect - U-Turn's current mechanics in PRO cause it to boost the stat corresponding to its opponent's stronger defensive stat, which means any physically defensive Pokemon are eating a +1 U-Turn whenever Genesect comes in, and will be faced with a deeply unfavorable matchup come the next turn. Attempting to predict and play around the likely Choice Scarf gets you destroyed by Life Orb or Choice-bluffing sets, as Genesect's natural base 99 speed outspeeds nearly all defensive assets on PRO, and it has just enough bulk to avoid being reliably revenge killed by priority such as Band Azumarill's Aqua Jet. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 126-148 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 196-232 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 146-173 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even if a Genesect user predicts incorrectly, U-Turn means Genesect itself is never at risk, and can still heavily dent any switchin: +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 103-123 (26.8 - 32%) -- 35.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics) 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 195-231 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 59.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics) +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 72-84 (25.6 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 53-63 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO This is very significant chip damage at literally no cost to Genesect's user. However, Genesect is not limited to simply gaining momentum and chipping away at your opponent's team. Explosion is also in its arsenal, and it can use the move to devastating effect, crippling its erstwhile counters at the cost of itself: +1 248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 362-426 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 213-251 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery And now let us remember that these calcs are based on Genesect without a boosting item, and entirely assuming that it is running a Choice Scarf to outspeed literally the entire metagame. No common Scarfer in PRO has more than 99 base speed - the fastest thing I've seen Scarfed so far is Hydreigon, sitting at base 98, 2 points lower than Genesect. Life Orb Genesect is a different beast entirely. While Scarf Genesect is an enormous asset against offense and balance, and quite capable of providing momentum and chipping away at stall, Life Orb Genesect blasts through stall cores with ease. 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 364-429 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 421-499 (106.8 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 363-428 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89 - 104.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO With Genesect, you can choose a playstyle to invalidate entirely, at the cost of a single teamslot. Scarf to render Offense helpless, or Life Orb to stall-break with ruthless efficiency. Even if the opposing team isn't the playstyle desperately weak to your Genesect set, it will still put in work. Base 99 speed is enough to outrun some of the slower pivots on even the most offensive teams, and Genesect can tank even strong neutral hits if necessary. Choice Scarf still provides invaluable momentum against stall. If you have the wrong Genesect, you have an A-tier threat. If you have the right Genesect, the game is over before turn 1 has been played. Another dimension to Genesect is the sheer amount of switches it forces. As xRevolutionx94 posted earlier, Genesect forces the majority of the metagame off the field with its wide arsenal of coverage. Combine this with Stealth Rock, and the chip damage will rack up to uncontrollable levels, making Genesect invaluable for wearing down checks to basically any sweeper you are pairing it with. Genesect simply has too much offensive presence to be allowed in PRO Ranked. Given its worst matchups, it will still manage to trade 1-for-1, thanks to Explosion and its coverage. Given it best matchups, it will outright 6-0 the opponent's team. It is clearly too much for this metagame, and thus should be banned. --- Shadow Tag Shadow Tag's effect is to prevent the opponent from switching out their Pokemon, unless said Pokemon is a Ghost-type. The primary user of Shadow Tag on PRO is Gothitelle. Given the several posts on here that claim Gothitelle would assist in dealing with "stall" which is apparently remarkably common in low ladder and also apparently far too powerful, I believe I have some misconceptions to clear up. 1) Gothitelle is more an asset for stall than any other playstyle. The crux of the arguments for unbanning Gothitelle are made by people who use it to trap Blissey, Slowbro, etc, set up Calm Mind, and eliminate them. However, they forget that Stall itself can run a Specs Gothitelle to take out any stallbreaking Gothitelle before it ever becomes a problem: 252 SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gothitelle: 194-230 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Taunt and Tickle variants of Gothitelle work just as well for this, except the Gothitelle mirror match would take much longer.) Gothitelle can also be specced to remove nearly any stallbreaker (bar Bisharp) that gives a stall team trouble. Gothitelle has a wide movepool, and given a Choice Scarf, enough speed to use it. Rely on Taunt Gyarados to weaken stall? 252 SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 316-376 (95.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO Rely on Heracross to boost up and smash through whatever walls stall can put up? 252 SpA Gothitelle Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Rely on slower methods of stallbreaking such as Clefable? Taunt. Tickle. Calm Mind. Gothitelle gives stall too much leeway in teambuilding, since it can be trained to remove almost any breaker, as they tend to either have middling speed at best and low defenses, or take multiple turns to set up and are slow (Gliscor, Clefable). Gothitelle further removes the danger of Magnezone or Dugtrio trapping either Skarmory or Chansey, as it can beat both with ease. Stall would have its life made much easier with the removal of opposing trappers. 2) No matter how hard you try, Gothitelle will not fit on offensive builds. Gothitelle has minimal defensive presence, thanks to its horrible pure-Psychic typing and average bulk and no recovery save Rest. These factors mean that Gothitelle cannot be relied on as a pivot. It cannot be used as an attacker - its Specs set works on Stall as a utility counter for certain Pokemon (namely opposing Gothitelle and Gliscor lacking Knock Off), but it does not have sufficient power to justify a teamslot, as it is dead weight against anything but stall - offense rarely if ever needs opposing wallbreakers removed. It is also extremely slow and would provide setup bait for any team faster than Balance. Unlike stall, Offense often relies on momentum to take care of setup sweepers before the spiral utterly out of control. 3) Despite being horrid on faster archetypes, Shadow Tag Gothitelle (and Gothorita and Gothita and Wobbuffet and Wynaut) are uncompetitive in the highest sense. Competitive Pokemon is based heavily around switching for favorable matchups. Shadow Tag removes this central mechanic for one party only, immediately conferring an unearned, opportunity-cost free advantage. Without Team Preview, there is literally nothing you can do or could have done about a Pokemon being trapped - you as a player are essentially taken out of the picture, as your ability to make decisions is taken out of your hands. This is completely against the spirit of a healthy metagame where the choices made by the players decide the outcome. With Shadow Tag, one player holds all the cards in his hands, and the other is reduced to the role of spectator. Shadow Tag is thus inherently uncompetitive, and thus should be banned rather than merely Gothitelle. --- EDIT: can mods take "ar se nal" off the censor list please? TL;DR: Genesect does a lot of damage. Ban Genesect. Shadow Tag makes stall too easy to build and too good. Ban Shadow Tag

Blaziken is roaming free in PRO, too. I was around during the BW OU Genesect time and I'll admit that everyone ran it, but PRO's metagame is vastly different from what used to be. I'd at least unban it for a testing period and then let players have a vote on whether or not it should be banned. The same should happen to questionable stuff like Blaziken. blaziken is held in check by the metagame being completely against it strong weather teams, priority spam, and talonflame especially prevent blaziken from being dangerously broken. On the other hand, Genesect's primary check in OU... heatran... kinda doesn't exist here...

Yes, they can.

Download does work, it just doesn't show up. If any of you played during XY OU when Genesect was legal, IMO no one would be making the argument to unban that utterly broken !@#$. Keep it out of ranked. It has two counters - Bulky Volcarona and Arcanine. However, it also has the coverage needed to take on literally the rest of the metagame, combined, in one team slot. Oh and it can just Explode on the two of them. "counters" hahahaha

there's another relatively safe way to approach bot boss which involves paralyzing mmx, putting up stealth rock, putting up 1-2 spikes, setting up reflect, then lowering mmx's stats until you can safely boost a dragon (dragonite/salamence) to +5 on it, at which point outrage will ohko the entire boss. It's reasonably safe as long as you don't forget to put up Stealth Rock (XD001 will tank a hit if its multiscale is up)

Uh, Kagawa, Deidaraa was given a mask as well xD

bumperino

Re: Kagawa's PVP Channel <t>Those youtube comments... these are the types of people that make PRO ladders xD</t>

i have a better idea change top 25 to top 10 to better reflect the amount of competent players in each server flame away >.>

staff have tools to do that already Please enlighten me: How do you do that if not through the IP adress of your pc? Monitoring ones playstyle and checking if its the same might be an option. But not in this world. This would be way to complex even if he had 10+ developers on the game. Please post some prove of your so called "Facts" and stop spamming the forums. Thank you. Over and Out - I dont wanna have some "fights" about OT in here. Gami letrix literally said that in the pvp rules thread over in the pvp forums, his words not mine

is called boosting and was always bannable

The age division is a metaphor for elo. Lower elo, less chance of beating a higher elo person. Especially when the high elo person faces you twice. What's fair about being beaten by the same person twice because they use a second account to have an elo that isn't representative of their true skill? an age difference can only be solved with time a difference in pvp skill can be solved by improving your game (also if you wanted second accounts to be representative of skill, why were they first banned from ladder, that's literally preventing them from being representative of skill)

staff have tools to do that already

yea no punishing people for reaching ladder is stupid either all alts or no alts; any middle ground is unacceptable to me

What? was already a rule preventing multiple accounts on ladder

better to ban all alts than to only ban those on ladder tbh

(you might want to say what server this is for)

The thing is: How do I know? It's not like the PRO meta is the same you find on smogon or other pvp websites so the only real way to get to know it, is to play the game. However, for that I need a team, so I sticked to basic team roles to get started. After all: This should not be a prefessional team. It is solely meant to get me started without getting me utterly destroyed. I will then (hopefully) learn what is missing for the current meta. Is Volcarona that common? I thought it only would be seen in high level PvP because it is so rare. That's a good point ... I will have to work on that one. Thanks for your answers! I highly appreciate it. I don't know what server you're on, but I have compiled usage stats for Yellow and they are somewhere on this forum, and others have done the same for Red. Volcarona on yellow is seen on roughly 7% of teams. I understand that some things only come with experience, and that my initial post may have been a little harsh, but if you fix the issues described it will be a much better team.

My nightmare xD xD

Special thanks to: Team Magma, especially iSmurfie, and UU Council.