Idkup

[GM] Gambilicious :Shocked: :Shocked: [GM] Kagawa

ha mons are still considerably harder to get than non ha mons it's just that it is now feasible to hunt t9 ha mons, when before it was a laughably stupid thing to attempt.

Why do you want shiny hunting to be easier and hidden ability hunting to be harder? Its not the same tbh, if u can choose the pokemon who want to spawn, u don't need a black ms to hunt h.a. Rappel trick + black ms is op imo. I prefer a more tools to hunt shiny/h.a that u want with rappel trick, but i don't like Black ms who is to much op. it is pretty much the same, you also don't need a stupidly long and cheap repel to hunt shinies

dont mind me just bumping :)))

Why do you want shiny hunting to be easier and hidden ability hunting to be harder?

1) No one's forcing you to use black ms. 2) Most people don't have the patience to spend dozens of hours slaving away for a single Pokemon.

DEI WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME ;-; no leave plis

Normal coins and they are tradeable and i was almost motivated to pvp this season...

defense forme deoxys would still be broken as all hell due to its decent speed tier, taunt access, reliable recovery, and both spikes and stealth rock... deoxys-d + bisharp plz no

so how would we get these?

nope.

Metronome still does not work.

This discussion has been had many times. I don't think there's a point, the status quo will stay.

:y: Yes, RoarCune is infinitely better! The only two things that Milotic has over it are probably not relevant enough to justify running the set (Sleep triggering Marvel Scale and Dragon Tail losing its decreased priority because of Sleep Talk having a normal move priority). Other than that, Milotic, Gyarados (with a similar set) and the overrated Poliwrath are outclassed by RoarCune. Even with no chance to burn the opposing Pokémon, I can actually see Gyarados being more relevant than Milotic and Poliwrath: good defensive typing, Intimidate, some offensive presence (when compared to the other two), as well as the possibility to run Dragon Tail or Roar. Next to Suicune Gyarados is certainly the superior option if only due to Intimidate. Poliwrath is ridiculously overrated it isn't funny.

As nice as getting a boost from marvel scale is, you are a sitting duck for two turns if you go with Rest. Don't do it. There still is the rather mediocre, yet annoying Scald/Dragon Tail/Rest/Sleep Talk set for Milotic. The likes of Calm Mind Clefable must rejoice every time Milotic runs this set. There is also a thing called Suicune that pulls off Roar + RestTalk sets much better :)

lol no, and heres why. Legendary pokemon are meant for only the most dedicated of players. If youre dedicated enough, u deserve to have access to them. 500 hours seems like a pretty heavy time investment / dedication to me...

Would be ridiculously strong in PvP, but fortunately it's banned. However, isn't 500 hours enough of an hour wall?

1k hours is honestly ridiculous (and i'm speaking as someone with 1k hours) I would suggest halving all game-time requirements: most bosses drop to between 50 and 150 hours; first legendaries circa 180, dogs 400, genesect 500

nah not normally, but was the final straw to show a certain person that this issue is serious, esspecially since we tried to move on and work towards a better guild to guild atmosphere. Well then excuse me while I make three posts about people I don't like on yellow. It's a vicious cycle and not one that should be continued.

Does inter-guild drama really belong on forums? There's plenty of people I wouldn't like to work with but that doesn't mean I go around posting this just to rile things up.

Can confirm have way too much fun locking down opponents with taunt + toxic gliscor, and judging by the angry PMs I've gotten, my opponents aren't! Ban fun.

????????? what do those words mean jk jk agree 100%

Since the other thread is only for voting, I thought I'd make this thread for discussion with Chappy's approval. This is to be the place for all suspect-related discussion, keep it off the Discord. The entities currently being suspected are the Pokemon Genesect and Blaziken, as well as a re-test of the ability Shadow Tag. Keep in mind that Download, Genesect's only ability, does work but is coded incorrectly. It still gives Genesect a stat boost on switchin, but it is the opposite of the one it should be given. This, in my opinion, makes the ability more powerful. You can read my thoughts on Genesect and Shadow Tag here (beware, 4 page long wall of text): https://pokemonrevolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413157#p413157 Please keep all opinions respectful, and refrain from ad hominem attacks.

https://imgur.com/a/BH6xj https://imgur.com/a/K4PGE wasn't gonna ladder until late season but guess i have to now BAN Genesect BAN Shadow Tag ABSTAIN Blaziken Genesect Genesect is nothing if not versatile. Download gives Genesect a boost to an offensive stat whenever it enters the field, capable of powering up its U-Turn to be nearly as strong as Choice Band Scizor's, except at the ridiculous speed tier of 489, wielding a Choice Scarf. Genesect's arsenal includes Iron Head, U-Turn, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, X-Scissor, Explosion, and even Shift Gear, Extreme Speed, and Blaze Kick by event. Two Pokemon currently legal in PRO can safely switch into it - Defensive variants of Volcarona, and defensive variants of Arcanine. However, both are deathly weak to Stealth Rock, and Arcanine has significantly limited recovery due to Morning Sun's 8 PP and the abundance of Drizzle and Sand Stream. Pokemon that may be able to tank a hit and retaliate such as Jirachi and Milotic are no checks to Genesect - U-Turn's current mechanics in PRO cause it to boost the stat corresponding to its opponent's stronger defensive stat, which means any physically defensive Pokemon are eating a +1 U-Turn whenever Genesect comes in, and will be faced with a deeply unfavorable matchup come the next turn. Attempting to predict and play around the likely Choice Scarf gets you destroyed by Life Orb or Choice-bluffing sets, as Genesect's natural base 99 speed outspeeds nearly all defensive assets on PRO, and it has just enough bulk to avoid being reliably revenge killed by priority such as Band Azumarill's Aqua Jet. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 126-148 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 196-232 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 146-173 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even if a Genesect user predicts incorrectly, U-Turn means Genesect itself is never at risk, and can still heavily dent any switchin: +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 103-123 (26.8 - 32%) -- 35.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics) 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 195-231 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 59.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (PRO Download mechanics) +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 72-84 (25.6 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO +1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 53-63 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO This is very significant chip damage at literally no cost to Genesect's user. However, Genesect is not limited to simply gaining momentum and chipping away at your opponent's team. Explosion is also in its arsenal, and it can use the move to devastating effect, crippling its erstwhile counters at the cost of itself: +1 248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 362-426 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 213-251 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery And now let us remember that these calcs are based on Genesect without a boosting item, and entirely assuming that it is running a Choice Scarf to outspeed literally the entire metagame. No common Scarfer in PRO has more than 99 base speed - the fastest thing I've seen Scarfed so far is Hydreigon, sitting at base 98, 2 points lower than Genesect. Life Orb Genesect is a different beast entirely. While Scarf Genesect is an enormous asset against offense and balance, and quite capable of providing momentum and chipping away at stall, Life Orb Genesect blasts through stall cores with ease. 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 364-429 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 421-499 (106.8 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 363-428 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 248 SpA Life Orb Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 8 Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89 - 104.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO With Genesect, you can choose a playstyle to invalidate entirely, at the cost of a single teamslot. Scarf to render Offense helpless, or Life Orb to stall-break with ruthless efficiency. Even if the opposing team isn't the playstyle desperately weak to your Genesect set, it will still put in work. Base 99 speed is enough to outrun some of the slower pivots on even the most offensive teams, and Genesect can tank even strong neutral hits if necessary. Choice Scarf still provides invaluable momentum against stall. If you have the wrong Genesect, you have an A-tier threat. If you have the right Genesect, the game is over before turn 1 has been played. Another dimension to Genesect is the sheer amount of switches it forces. As xRevolutionx94 posted earlier, Genesect forces the majority of the metagame off the field with its wide arsenal of coverage. Combine this with Stealth Rock, and the chip damage will rack up to uncontrollable levels, making Genesect invaluable for wearing down checks to basically any sweeper you are pairing it with. Genesect simply has too much offensive presence to be allowed in PRO Ranked. Given its worst matchups, it will still manage to trade 1-for-1, thanks to Explosion and its coverage. Given it best matchups, it will outright 6-0 the opponent's team. It is clearly too much for this metagame, and thus should be banned. --- Shadow Tag Shadow Tag's effect is to prevent the opponent from switching out their Pokemon, unless said Pokemon is a Ghost-type. The primary user of Shadow Tag on PRO is Gothitelle. Given the several posts on here that claim Gothitelle would assist in dealing with "stall" which is apparently remarkably common in low ladder and also apparently far too powerful, I believe I have some misconceptions to clear up. 1) Gothitelle is more an asset for stall than any other playstyle. The crux of the arguments for unbanning Gothitelle are made by people who use it to trap Blissey, Slowbro, etc, set up Calm Mind, and eliminate them. However, they forget that Stall itself can run a Specs Gothitelle to take out any stallbreaking Gothitelle before it ever becomes a problem: 252 SpA Choice Specs Gothitelle Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gothitelle: 194-230 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Taunt and Tickle variants of Gothitelle work just as well for this, except the Gothitelle mirror match would take much longer.) Gothitelle can also be specced to remove nearly any stallbreaker (bar Bisharp) that gives a stall team trouble. Gothitelle has a wide movepool, and given a Choice Scarf, enough speed to use it. Rely on Taunt Gyarados to weaken stall? 252 SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 316-376 (95.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO Rely on Heracross to boost up and smash through whatever walls stall can put up? 252 SpA Gothitelle Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Rely on slower methods of stallbreaking such as Clefable? Taunt. Tickle. Calm Mind. Gothitelle gives stall too much leeway in teambuilding, since it can be trained to remove almost any breaker, as they tend to either have middling speed at best and low defenses, or take multiple turns to set up and are slow (Gliscor, Clefable). Gothitelle further removes the danger of Magnezone or Dugtrio trapping either Skarmory or Chansey, as it can beat both with ease. Stall would have its life made much easier with the removal of opposing trappers. 2) No matter how hard you try, Gothitelle will not fit on offensive builds. Gothitelle has minimal defensive presence, thanks to its horrible pure-Psychic typing and average bulk and no recovery save Rest. These factors mean that Gothitelle cannot be relied on as a pivot. It cannot be used as an attacker - its Specs set works on Stall as a utility counter for certain Pokemon (namely opposing Gothitelle and Gliscor lacking Knock Off), but it does not have sufficient power to justify a teamslot, as it is dead weight against anything but stall - offense rarely if ever needs opposing wallbreakers removed. It is also extremely slow and would provide setup bait for any team faster than Balance. Unlike stall, Offense often relies on momentum to take care of setup sweepers before the spiral utterly out of control. 3) Despite being horrid on faster archetypes, Shadow Tag Gothitelle (and Gothorita and Gothita and Wobbuffet and Wynaut) are uncompetitive in the highest sense. Competitive Pokemon is based heavily around switching for favorable matchups. Shadow Tag removes this central mechanic for one party only, immediately conferring an unearned, opportunity-cost free advantage. Without Team Preview, there is literally nothing you can do or could have done about a Pokemon being trapped - you as a player are essentially taken out of the picture, as your ability to make decisions is taken out of your hands. This is completely against the spirit of a healthy metagame where the choices made by the players decide the outcome. With Shadow Tag, one player holds all the cards in his hands, and the other is reduced to the role of spectator. Shadow Tag is thus inherently uncompetitive, and thus should be banned rather than merely Gothitelle. --- EDIT: can mods take "ar se nal" off the censor list please? TL;DR: Genesect does a lot of damage. Ban Genesect. Shadow Tag makes stall too easy to build and too good. Ban Shadow Tag

Blaziken is roaming free in PRO, too. I was around during the BW OU Genesect time and I'll admit that everyone ran it, but PRO's metagame is vastly different from what used to be. I'd at least unban it for a testing period and then let players have a vote on whether or not it should be banned. The same should happen to questionable stuff like Blaziken. blaziken is held in check by the metagame being completely against it strong weather teams, priority spam, and talonflame especially prevent blaziken from being dangerously broken. On the other hand, Genesect's primary check in OU... heatran... kinda doesn't exist here...