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Much has been said about how annoying and expensive it is to reroll your legendary Pokemon. With the amount of powerful legendary Pokemon being released, this is a bigger problem than ever before. It is currently difficult to imagine a properly constructed PvP team without at least one legendary - the likes of Landorus-T, Tornadus-T, Thundurus, Manaphy, and Mega Diancie simply have no comparable huntable replacement. Because of this, I would like to present a mathematical analysis on how difficult it is to obtain a legendary that is able to function in its role - having sufficient speed to maintain its speed tier, and the correct hidden power if necessary. I will only look for average secondary stats (HP, offenses, defenses >= 15). These statistics were computed using a script that simulates rerolling a legendary over and over until it meets certain parameters. This was posted in the PvP forum as it is most relevant to PvP players. First, let's consider this (admittedly subjective) list of essential legendaries: Essential: Niche: Let's consider only the 10 legendaries listed as essential. Here are the speed IVs they must meet to remain in their speed tier: Let's take a look at how many rerolls it would take to obtain bare minimum speed, reasonable secondary stats, and Hidden Power if necessary (Mean | Median # rerolls necessary in 10,000 simulations rounded to nearest integer): Sum total: 1877 mean / 1305 median reroll tickets needed for simply playable stats. Source code can be provided if anyone is interested in double-checking my work, but arithmetic will show that these numbers are reasonable. I think no one will disagree when I say this is unrealistic for the vast majority of the playerbase. Of course, the primary offender is Hidden Power, but I would consider these numbers unacceptable even without the [Ice] electrics. As frustrating as it is for players, I can't imagine it's profitable for the game, either - with these numbers most players simply won't bother rerolling, weakening the economy. My best suggestion for mitigating this issue is allowing players to grind to increase their legendaries' IVs up to a maximum of 15. I'd love to hear any alternative ideas. As an aside, this forum needs actual moderation. The Greninja thread was a cesspool of low-effort posts and blatant misinformation - Keita eventually closed it, but ideally we would be able to engage in productive discussion without these sorts of distractions.

I was just thinking about this a few days ago and it's a big reason why I keep going back to showdown instead of playing pro. My idea was: the more rerolls you put into a specific legendary, the higher the iv floor is for that legend. With a cap ofc. For example: 1st rr: iv floor of 1 5th rr: iv floor of 5 10th rr: iv floor of 10. Numbers can be tweaked and stop wherever staff sees fit. As for hidden power, just make an expensive item that lets us pick it and it and adjusts our legends current ivs up or down by 1 to fit that.

Have to agree its close to impossible to get a couple of optimal useable legendary Pokemon especially if they want a certain hidden power. Saving up and investing points/money/time for rerolls and in the end gaining nothing from them is very demotivating to even (continue) trying for it. This also creates entrance barriers for higher tiers of pvp where certain legendaries (with hp) become essential as the OP mentions and new players have no realistic way of catching up to this, which is sure to hurt PVP and the game as a whole more in the long run than any change to RRs ever could (the single iv rr from the halloween event didnt break the game). Im all for a change to make it easier to obtain more useable iv, be it raising the minimum iv to a limit with use of rerolls or by adding quests, which could also be fun and engaging but of course would be harder to implement aswell or any other ideas that might be posted here later since the current system is just not future proof.

I've spent A LOT of money on PRO and rerolls awhile ago. I knew buying rerolls was a huge waste but not like this. It's actually insane, even with the price of CC's being as high as they are. I was super lucky getting an amazing Thundurus and possibly other legendaries straight from the quest but all of my re-rolls for anything else have basically gone to waste and after seeing this, I don't regret not buying more. With Kup's idea, it would make PvP more competitive in the long run, and it wouldn't be overpowered as it would only hit the minimum usability of a few legendaries. If the grind isn't outrageous either, it would give content for everyone to work on or it would give people a reason to actually spend money on the game to buy RRs. I like this idea better than raising the cap per RR because that only helps a select few who've saved enough money/RRs plus the lack of grindable content wouldn't attract people who've left the game to come back, and overall just doesn't have enough incentive to get me to play the game again. I can't even be bothered to do my daily Solaceon to get RRs right now. If I'm going to waste money buying CC's to buy RR's right now or with the RR usage cap. I'd better off investing in a gacha game instead :v...

Giving recent behaviour issues from many people here, some involving as well the thread owner, I am actually forced to close this thread as it's not leading anywhere in any case. Our Council Leader will make a post, with my help to make it clean and understandable for everyone, to explain the bans as soon as possible. Eventually we'll give chance to comment below the thread where stuff is explained, As for votes, regardless of how much you will ask, we won't make one cause votes, +1, petitions, polls and similar makes absolutely zero sense as I have explained before. To make you an example, If I would make a vote regarding if adding a 3x3 empty map where we gift Legendaries, more than 70% of the community will say yes, but does that mean the decision is the correct one? Absolutely not. What we consider are valid arguments supported by facts, evidences, calculation and in general data collected. In short, arguments that are actually proved/possible to be proved. Have a good day.

!: the poke is silver, if the winner is gold, I can transfer. !: in case of being offline in the game, send me by discord angel._.d#5696

Player name: Alixx7 Showdown name: Yauga Server: Gold Timezone: GMT +2 Rank on ladder: 24th

I hate to disagree here but rerolls , as any other item in the game are based on supply and demand. Reroll tickets are always in demand and that is why their price never plummeted. Yes their base price is based on their scarcity, but at worst, their price never drops below 700k which is 93% of the original price , and their price at their peak is around 800k which is 106% of the original price , this is why most people will hoard their reroll tickets until a new legendary drops . This shows that reroll tickets are always in demand. Let's take another item as an example which is masterballs, their base price is around 50k. Masterballs are only in demand when a new legendary drops. When they are , their price goes up to 60k. 55k and below is considered cheap. But outside of when a new legendary drops , their price is around 40k , and i've even seen people even drop to 35k and 30k . That's a 20% increase in price at their peak and a whopping 40% drop in price at their lowest. This goes to show how important supply and demand are in pro, and that's for a very common item like masterballs. I know comparing masterballs and reroll tickets might not be the best example here but this is the best comparison i came up with at the moment. If everyone can guarantee a decent / playable legendary at a fixed price , the demand will certainly decrease , just like with masterballs when no one needs them anymore . At first the prices might stay the same or increase a bit . But with time , a year or two from now, everyone will have usable legendaries and reroll tickets will not be as in demand anymore. This occurence will certainly lower their price and have a long term impact on the game economy . Again , i do not know if this effect will be a good or a positive one , we can only hope.

yes exacly, i've been very vocal about comparing the reroll system to the predatory-gacha system beeing used all over the gaming industry. I hate it when in the past when ever people post complains about the current reroll system there comes a bunch of white knight defending it by saying "oh if its to easy then you get everything 31 iv, no point of playing the game". I love the fact that you can show people the numbers of how bad it actually is. The complain have persisted and nothing have changed for 3+ years now. Its incredible predatory as mentioned before and go agianst the pg 11 politic PRO is trying to appear as. By introducing this straight up gambling mechanic to ur pg11 playerbase. If it's not okay to say "poop" in all chat, then it should not be okay with this kind of pro-casino roulette rolls. Another thing is that this is exactly the reason which make players very frustrated with staff generated poke in pvp. To different degree ofcourse but i think i can say we all agree that we feel somewhat unfair after looking at the reroll odds us playerbase are playing with, while staff generated lando/zapdos/latios rolls in with perfect ivs and chosen hidden powers. That just increase the unnecessary conflict that shouldnt need to exist. I understand a replacement system is tricky, but idea like a buffer system that builds up the more u rerolls, or a mechanic that allow u to push 1 specific stats up which all pokes living in a important speed tie like 350 really need. Those idea have all been brought up in the past and i consider them all very valid. Hell you can probably add in a pvp quest for Ramona like : win 100 pvp games and u get to reroll a mon where u keep 1 stats the same, like the rerolls from events before.

I agree on all these points , and ive always disliked the pro reroll system. Even though i hate being against the current , i do have some concerns about changing it because it's not as simple as buffing reroll tickets in some way. As much as i hate the rerolling system, i also believe that it kind of balances out the economy in it's own way . Yes rng is a [very nice woman] and spending more and more money on rerolls does not guarantee you a decent legendary . This mechanic is absolutely horrible. Rerolling legendaries is basically gambling , and gambling is addictive , people will never give up rerolling because of the gambling adrenaline rush . Gambling as a whole is such a predatory system , but that's another can of worms that i will not really get into . But reroll tickets are a currency at this point just like coin capsules. Making rerolling less rng dependant will certainly lower their value . I have never been the best at economy but i can certainly tell that dropping a currency's value by a huge margin will have a big impact on the economy. I do not know how it will change it , either in a positive or a negative way but it certainly will. This will be a huge change towards the game whether you're a pver or a pvper. The staff really should make an educated decision here because it will decide the future of the economy of pro. Just wanted to lay out these concerns , im not opposing to the idea at all though , +1 from me.

i'm starting the auction

The Shiny Klefki was traded forcefully. 7m were removed from @KimStarz and added to @Lux. In the future please use the Report button under your post to bring it to our attention. Tagging Trade Moderators won't make yourself noticed. Locked as there's no further action to take. Take care.

C.O:5m by Galewingstalon Start:1m Min raise: 200k Insta:7m Auction ends 72 hours after first bid

7.1M

6.9M

P$ 6,500,000.

6.4

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Confirmed. Looking forward to claiming it later in game if I win the bid.

You want to know why greninja was banned ? Aside from the [heck] ton of content in this thread that you choose to ignore , go read everything that was said by top ladder players who have gotten ladder consistently over years in the pvp council discord server ( i would be happy to provide the link https://discord.gg/sTh5Mqb3 ) . There are NUMEROUS THREADS on smogon , on youtube , on freaking pokecommunity on why greninja is banned . Sources are everywhere , all you need to do is go to this link :" www.google.com " , you click in the searchbar and you type "greninja ban" or "greninja ban smogon". Simple right? And yes , thoes who are laddering do get to decide for everyone .With all due respect , people who do not pvp , or people who are not experienced in pvp do not get to vote on the matters of pvp. I thought that was obvious enough. There's a reason why minors do not get to vote in elections. It's because they are not mature enough and do not understand enough to vote . This is the exact same case here , why do people who do not know anything about pvp get to decide for people who play for pvp? Want to be a grown up and get to vote on matters of pvp? Go get ladder. So instead of riling up like a bunch of kids and using cheap methods like starting a petition with a VERY low number of votes needed as a matter of fact (seeing that both servers combined average to about 1.5k players at any given time), Go get ladder. You think greninja does not deserve a ban and you want your voice to be heard? Then prove that your voice deserves to be heard and you guessed it , Go get ladder. Disclaimer : This is not directed towards @iammeetdpbecause he has proven himself and gotten ladder multiple times before , this is directed towards every godamn kid in here who keeps arguing nonsense while getting presented with facts and numbers.

well if infernape is that good just fking use it, and stop complaining about gren ban

I messaged 47 players (all Council members and as many top 25 players as I could find on Discord). 5 did not reply, while 8 out of 42 mentioned unbanning Greninja, as opposed to 29 for Mega Metagross. Is that not good enough for you? I think that says a lot about the qualifications of those who are signing this petition. If Walross (or Keita) allows me to mention their names, I also can.

Why would you let the hazard up ? - To be honest, everyone doesn't want the hazards up for sure but we can't manage everything we wanted. I'd rather let it up than sac my win cons. Chansey not going to die to Low Kick, due to having Softboiled. - ofc it's not but not everyone can manage Chansey with full hp all the time. bad position = dead and as I stated chansey is not counter just check. take a hit from one low kick, forced to softboiled. easy bring physical attackers. Why we can't afford to make full hp chansey all the time? - because it's defensive pokemon, we always use it to check or take some sp.atk damage, alright it can softboiled to get full hp back but in some situation, you can't softboiled. such as you use chansey to check rotom, rotom volt out then switch in to any physical attacker, or set up sweeper. you're forced to switch out. Hp grass greninja is used in rank tbh, especially rich players or pvper who can afford. Yes, rotom can check it without hp.grass once or twice. it also took about 40% from extrasensory + in case gren holding life orb therefore you can make only one or two mistake to let rotom taking any damage plus gren also spike at rotom face when predicted volt out. Again to clarify, I considered in the situation under 6vs6 pokemons not 1vs1.

No. Since there are only 25 places on ladder, only the ppl with the highest rating can reach ladder. And when you only need 50 games per season, its a proof for themselfes. Its harder to reach top 25 with a 80% winrate and 50 games than spam games and reach it with a 65% winrate. When you have such a winrate, over and over, you have knowledge. I also have no idea how you come to the idea that those are "showdown players" when its a tournament hold on showdown with PRO rules?! They are PRO player, not showdown player. The only difference for showdown are the IVs on the Pokemon and the platform itself. Mistake, yes. But your reasoning is far behinde any sense. Like wtf, nothing in your post makes sense. Read it again and think what you are writing. Such a bs in so many ways. No offense.

3m.

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