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Unban Greninja Here:- (Removed Petition as it was overruled) I Request an All Player accessible Voting for Final Ban/Unban Decision of Protean Greninja. Greninja has been a part of ranked pvp for almost 2 year iirc. It was never consider broken! Why now? Mega Metagross was kept unbanned for few reasons stated on discord! Let's compare Geninja with those reasons. Keep in mind that I love Mega Metagross and these is just to compare, not prove anything against mega Metagross. 1) It has yet to show signs of breaking metagame - I got no reason to believe that greninja is harmful for metagame, that thing is been around for 2 years! If it was harmful, shouldn't the metagame be dead by now 2) It has fair checks and counters- Lmao for real, you are going to unban Mega Metagross for that reason and not greninja. I do realize that greninja can be played smartly with protean, but that thing is fragile asf! It gets 2hko from moves it resist ( especilly since it requires - def/ sp.def nature because of mix run) It has to be run with life orb usally which just adds up to its fragility. 3) It has 4 moveslot syndrome- Its getting real at these point. You really believe that metagross has these syndrome and not GRENINJA. Players who fear it is because it can run mix or at its best hp fire. Surf, Ice beam, hp Fire, Spikes, low kick, gunk shot, u turn, extrasensory,hp grass... WOW no 4 move syndrome at all. To add up , they said it could run 7-8 moves that it would like to run ( metagross) but is limited to 4, WHAT ABOUT NINJA THAN??? you think it can cover entire meta in its 4 moves? 4) It doesn't yet restrict teambuilding to an unhealthy extent- I dont even know what he wanna prove with these point. Lets move onn 5) It can be dealt with all major playstyles- whats the current meta, chansey? ferrothrom?? clefable??? Playstyle- Rain? Trickroom?? Balanced Teams??? Greninja can handle all of them alone? with 4 moves?? OK I think if all these reasons can cause mega metagross to unban, than greninja deserves an unban aswell. Please sign the Petiton if you feel Greninja was banned unfairly, Thank you.

No offense , but this is very wrong. If you switch in a "check" on greninja and you get spiked on instead , you got outraded that turn, that turn is a tremendous loss for you. Not to mention the fact that greninja beats all the common defoggers in the meta: rotom wash (with hp grass) - tornadus - landorus - zapdos - skarmory- latis , you name it... And trying to predict greninja when greninja is trying to spike is like playing with fire . Since one layer of spikes is more than enough, staying on a greninja trying to spike again is a bad idea most of the time. I wonder how many times i built a team , and i was like "huh , this loses to greninja if it's carrying these 2 specific moves" and what do you know? 2 games later i face a greninja with that exact same moveset and the team goes to the trashbin. Greninja with the right moveset can topple teams over , you never know what moves it's running , wether its physical or special oriented , wether its banded , scarfed , sashed , expert belted... And it virtually has no switch ins until you can figure out what set it's running. While this is true , most pokemons that suffer from 4mss have one thing in common , if they are against a counter and do not carry the right move , they are completely useless. But in the case of greninja , that 4mss is an advantage . Not knowing what moves greninja is running from its billion possible and viable moves , leaves you only with the option to try and scout. And if you scout its moveset wrong , best case you get spiked on a couple times , worst case you lose a mon or two just to try and figure out what set this demon is running. Believe it or not , greninja is a "support" pokemon . Its job is not to sweep or 1v6 the enemy team , its job is to break through it with continious chip and hazards ( spikes and the rare toxic spikes) and soften them up for its teamates . So the stronger the metagame becomes , the better greninja itself becomes . Yes greninja does not win games on its own obviously against a well rounded team, but its role as an early game powerhouse is to soften up the enemy pokes so it's partners can wreak havoc late game , and no one does this job better than it. Big -1.

-1 All arguments in favor of Greninja ban have been discussed in the pvp council. You can find more examples and arguments in smogon articles. If you can’t understand why a Pokemon like Greninja should be banned for an healthy metagame sorry to say that, but you may lack sufficient knowledge to properly play Pokemon in a « competitive way ». This decision has nothing to do with « it has been there for 2 years », « people love greninja », « we spent lot of money on it » or even « I’ve been farming greninja for hours ». What comes from reading your complaints is that you don’t understand how a ban is decided. So instead of using fallacious arguments (like alomomola and chansey should be banned since they are unbreakable) try to understand what is an healthy metagame.

When you want to unban Greninja, you have to bring valid arguments. Especially when its already banned and you want to unban it. So, how do you do that? I can help you to tell you how to not do it. Are they compareable? If so, why? Maybe your statement is right, who knows?! I dont, because you just write it down without explanation. This is NOT an argument. Which? You may be right, you may not be right. Who knows when you keep your knowledge as a secret? Show us. As you probably already know some arguments about the 4 move syndrom, how can you abuse that when you see a Greninja in the opposing team? Because for Metagross it doesnt seem to be so hard *I heard* Nice to know. Why tho? Its again the "handle" question. Just explain how to deal with Greninja. How do you deal with it in a proper way. How does that prove anything? When I show you a screenshot where I kill a Mega Rayquaza with Ice Beam its also not op? When I say "why?" or so, it does not mean I disagree with you neccessarily, but if you have a point, you should argue in a right way. You can do 1: Cry and write random stuff or 2: Give arguments that staff has no other choice to unban it and has to apologize. Dont get me wrong, there are also ppl who wanted Gren to be banned and didint bring the top explanation. But the current status is that Gren is banned, and we (Gren ban likers) dont have to bring the arguments atm. You have to

It’s true that greninja has been a part in the ranked pvp for almost 2 years but back in that time we still don’t have any pvp council yet. The council was created to discuss about any pvp topics because the staff might be not knowledgeable enough or need some pvpers’s opinion to discuss about pvp things and I believed the thread about greninja and aegislash were brought up to discuss since the council was created but they did not get banned for some reasons even if the council members agreed to ban it for long long time. Why they unbanned metagross ? Some people in council agree to ban it and some people did not therefore the council do their job to survey top 25 pvpers’s opinion in both server [in that time] last season which is in April, 2021. I guess, the conclusion of the survey [ both of council members and Top#25 on both servers] is unbanned the metagrossite. below is my opinion about metagross. We are going to talk about “How greninja broke healthy metagame” In my viewpoint. There are lots of thing that can check greninja such as chansey, ferrothorn, rotom etc. but none of them can counter it. Chansey : low kick is not even 2 hits k.o. but there is the chance to do that with stealth rock up and high roll [in case of full hp] and free to set up spike predicted chansey is to switch in as a checker then greninja can safely switch out. [stay in and get toxic, paralyzed never be a play to be honest]. Spike is the best support move for greninja to help any sweepers do their job easier. You know the move Defog and it’s exist in PRO ? Almost of the defoggers in PRO meta are weakness to greninja : [1] Rotom-wash : Hp. Grass, spike [predicted the volt switch] [2] Ice weakness defoggers : Zapdos, Tornadus, Skamory and gliscor etc… [ hydro or surf] They are all slower and weak to icebeam, surf therefore they can’t defog in front of greninja. Ferrothron : absolutely fine to check greninja with out hp.fire and low kick but as I said above free spike on predicted switch and don’t switch out and take leech or some damage are not the play. Clefable : Gunk shot doesn’t 1 hit k.o but it doesn’t good enough to check, tbh Conkeldurr : sneak with protean or risk to get k.o. with match punch when staying in water-dark type is not a good play. Greninja is fragile as you said but if you can use it properly you won’t let it take any damage, of course it’s fragile compared to metagross but there’re things can check and counter matagross imo. it’s not that hard to deal with [ sucker punch, scarfted magnezone forced to take damage from volt switch, some safe checks. Etc.] Grenninja’s movepool : of course every pokemon has 4 slot of moves but with its ability, I would say it’s too op because it’s stab every move and before you figure it out what set it is, your team might get ruined, of course we can check the move by double switching to check but if the hazards are up, I’m not preferred to take additional damage for free and it can learn u-turn, get a free momentum yeah ….. boom! It can be dealt with all major playstyles with only 4 moves : due to the flexible playstyle and movepool I think it is because as I said we can’t figure out what set it it. All I said above about the greninja, I’d said it causes the unhealthy meta. I considered those circumstances above as 6vs6 not 1vs1 because when you pvp, you have 6 pokemons as your opinion as well and to clarify this only my viewpoint why greninja should be ban. All of discussion banning pokemon I think the council made their decision with their respectable knowledge, some surveys with pvpers and they carefully consider about it, I believed. I understand you point, all of PRO players are not pvpers how pvpers can be representatives of all the people in PRO community. You might feel like your voice doesn’t be heard but It doesn’t mean they did not care about your voice. Some duty might need specific skills or people who are knowledgeable knowing pokemon in competitive way enough to get the best result of any discussion. They just “Put the right man in to the right job”. Additional : https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue44/ou-to-ubers That’s why I “-1” this thread. Respectfully,

Besides the change.org link, this is the first sentence of the post. An inaccurate statement. Way to go my guy. It was considered broken from the very beginning but was not banned because Eaty had just coded the ability to work, so it was a no-go on banning it. It was at the time he just became Dev and could do actual work on the game. It would have been a huge waste of time for him to code something and instantly ban it (a highly requested ability at the time and considered impossible to code by previous Devs). So no, it always has been considered broken. It was just a matter of time till the plug was pulled.

Then make a proper post. I only see "OMG", "read" etc. I can just repeat myself, you write down stuff without any explanation. It just makes no sense. You posted a rolls now, nice. I asked for some, it still doesnt convince me at all since I will just switch out on those. You didnt get my point of the post. I didnt post it to give counterarguments, you just simply write stuff which are no arguments, Why should that convince anyone? This post is just a random flame for the ban, when I would read that as staff Id laugh at it and close it. If you want a proper discussion, go and actually try to convince ppl with arguments.

Sorry I am not as fancy at quoting and editing as you are, but when I created these post I thought that experienced players will well know the facts that I am providing like it getting 2hkoed and stuff even if they want it banned, soo i didnt show calculations but than you show up, First and formost you completly missed the part where I mentioned that metagross isnt being suspected upon here, I am just tryin to prove a point with it. I love metagross, seems like you too do. One word READ! I clearly said its been around for two years and pvp is still alive, than how is it harmful for meta now Whats it that counters tyranitar, infernape and their likes, hell even a blaze blaziken, they are unpredictable, they dont have counters OMG!!! Show us. 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 125-148 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 192-227 (67.3 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Lol cant even tank 2 bb from skarmory:- 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 148-175 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO I know it isnt weak to flying, but i find it funny, I can show many more I would throw my chansey against the ninja and let it die a painful death from his own lie orb recoil when I am just softboilong. Just kidding, Again I can list other mons that can be unpredicatble, that doesnt mean banning them, if you cant handle pvp heat! why play it lmao Nice to know. Why tho? I thought you knew English, I said I didn't realize what they meant from that point soo I clearly left it untouched without any comment regarding it. Its again the "handle" question. Just explain how to deal with Greninja. How do you deal with it in a proper way. Alright, you are trying to act smart at these point. I clearly mean that when you have a ninja thats either mix, physical or special, it alone cant handle the enitre metagame. There will always be something that ninja cant kill. You tell me a perfect ninja moveset and I will delete these thread right away. I dont want to be toxic, I never like to be, I just wanted a discussion or a voting for Ninja ban, I dont know why some people are being rude. I hope you undertsand that our personal values should always be higher than the game. Have a good day.

Yeah, when you use Greninja like in your posts, no wonder you dont find it op.

I can't take your post seriously by saying "he is not experienced" in pvp, considering you never finished top at the end of the season, while he did. Gren ban has been discussed for years, that's true. However, as I said in another post, I never found it hard to counter. People need to understand that this is not gen 6. It's gen 6 pokémon working with gen 7 mechanics, which makes the game different. Resuming: +1

-1.Greninja as an individual mon isn't that problematic, but the offensive pressure it applies with spikes and it is just too good when paired with wave 3 mega like metagross/alakazam(to name a few)also being able to defeat defogger like rotom with hp grass is something that requires people to build teams to specifically counter things like this which I think is unhealthy for meta.Also,its unpredictability is a major issue. It's gonna get unbanned in future with release of tapus I suppose,but unbanning it now will not be a good decision.

. . . : : : W E L C O M E : : : . . . Only money and payment methods: nature rr 350k ivs reroll 700k cc 400k Bms 170K, MS 15d 200k, 30d 380k, 60d 650k rc 6k Discord: muzita#5108 PRO: muzita YOU CAN SEE THE SOLD POKES (TRADES) ON THE COMMENTS

UNROLL THE TADPOLE UNCLOG THE FROG UNLOAD THE TOAD UNINHIBIT THE RIBBIT UNSTICK THE LICK UNIMPRISON THE AMPHIBIAN UNMUTE THE NEWT UNBENCH THE KENCH PERMIT THE KERMIT DEFOG THE POLLIWOG "-1 tho"

+1

Why other pokemon with multiple very different sets (evs, moves, item) won't be banned. -Tyranitar - 4x weak to Fighting, Mach Punch (Priority) Vacuum Wave (Priority) -Garchomp - 4x weak to Ice, Ice Shard (Priority) -Pelipper - 4x weak to Electric -Heatran - 4x weak to ground -Landorus - Same as Garchomp -Goodra - Slow -Mew - No one really uses this tbh I'm sorry, I'm lazy. "But walls beat Greninja" -Greninja can just U-turn / switch out to wall breakers lmao. "Mega pokemon beat Greninja" (Ghabra's point) Strong pokemon also synergize with Greninja, with Greninja helping them to wear down opposing pokemon in order to open up a sweep. This make Greninja even scarier as it has stronger teammates to work with. "We might as well ban walls" -Walls are a part of a game, slow, switch-in-able. They are also part of what makes Pokemon strategic. "No one cares about spikes" -Setup is annoying ngl, and defog is a waste of a turn if you are just removing one spike. "Greninja can't ohko" -Like they said, Greninja is a chipper / support, not a sweeper. "4 Move Syndrome" -Oh look, its a Greninja, I wonder which of its 14 possible moves it has and which of its 6 possible Items its using. Can't wait to sacrifice some pokemon to find out! "Priority Moves" -Just switch out ya know? "Frail" -I said just switch out, you have 5 other party members to use. Please, just let the game add more faries (Tapus) and walls (Toxapex) before we unban Greninja. Sure, my points are bad but im tired, lazy, and I don't feel like debating so eh.

How can you act funny when u clearly said something, I prove it otherwise and than u say I cant understand rhetoric. Also the only reason I brought along Petiton was to prove a fact with numbers since they didn't held a voting. Anyway, was good to have you here, thanks for your opinions. Have a good day.

The fact that you are using a petition to bring back Greninja is clearly because you ask for people to agree on non solid arguments (already mentioned by more experienced players than you) that’s why I mentioned the other arguments I read many times before. You ask me to read all the topics but dude you should first since you can’t even remember that you mentioned that chansey alomomola should be banned. By the way, I don’t need a player like you to valid or invalid one of my comment

If you re not going to answer using any valid arguments or anything constructive ,and try to make fun of actual people having an actual discussion here, do not quote me please. Thank you

+1, I want Greninja to be Unbanned, however unbanning it doesn't mean it's not dangerous, but it really is. Here are my opinions for Greninja: PROS: - Can dodge/resist super effective/dangerous moves with Protean - Hits hard with the help of stab moves - Fast and a very good suicide lead - Very wide movepool - Most of the time Unpredictable CONS: - Very fragile with -def or -spdef nature since mostly everyone uses mixed Greninja - Also I think life orb is the most popular item with it and reduces 10% hp each time it attacks and thus making it more fragile. - There are way more faster Pokemon than it, and can kill it due to its low bulk - Using a choice item? No problem, if youre a good player you can easily scout it and most of these sets are confident in front of faster pokemon than Greninja and obviously, its scarfed. If not then it maybe has a strategy to do. Also being choice locked is actually bad when youre in front of Balanced Teams or Stall Teams. And if youre having a hard time with a choice locked Greninja, you can remove that Choice Item with Knock Off and other moves that removes items. - Being an Unpredictable Pokemon can be countered when you scout moves, by switching or using protect. However, sometimes it can be useless as 4 moves can destroy an entire team. As I said these are just my opinions.

You know you missed the whole point when you did not mention the word "spikes" a single time.

justice for frog

Ok, let say that the problem is mega lopunny, so what vs ferro? Lets see what happened... First turn 2nd turn 3th turn 4th turn

You can't avoid e-speed with shadow sneak in the same turn, since it's +2 priority. If you are going against the ban, at least show knowledge about the meta and about how the moves work.

+1 Greninja is has low def, spdef and hp stat. Which makes greninja fragile to so many moves. I saw people giving some undesirable reasons like people can't predict(This some trash reason). PvP is all about predicting the moves. Banning pokemons just spoil the fun.

Let me show you a fun story Turn 1 turn 2 turn 3 turn 4 WOW what a monster

Unban greninja, dont be waller. There is a lot of pro pvp yt videos where u can se how fragile greninja is

Yes Greninja should be unbanned its the only pokemon which does match changing perfomance while its so frigil and have many counters its a great pokemon used in ranked pvp and I'm 100% sure pvp is dead without Greninja

-1

How old are you and where are you from? I’m around 30 and I come from France. Why would you like to join Trinity? I want to be part of a strong guild. I joined my current guild out of loyalty to one of its officers who has since stopped playing. I now want to join a more active and ambitious community. Were you part of another guild in the past and if so which one? I was in Apocalypse for around a year, in Predators for around a year, and in Evolution for the past few months. I also play on gold in Renaissance and in RoyalRaiders. What is the highest rating you've ever got? It was slightly above 200. What do you enjoy most doing in PRO? I like collecting epic Pokémon, and using them in battle. I also enjoy getting a clearer understanding of why some things work and others don’t in PvP. What else other than rating can you contribute to Trinity? As most older accounts, I have accrued Pokémon that I could lend. I actively follow discord, and enjoy helping out insofar as I can. I have a good handle on getting along, and that has allowed me to mediate and help resolve conflicts in the past, should they arise. What is your Discord ID? jack3957261#2167

Hello and welcome to this auction of this Tyranitar! - ACCEPTED CURRENCIES - Pokedollars Reroll Ticket - 750k Nature Reroll - 375k Coin Capsule - 420k Rare Candy - 7k - CONTACT - IGN - Cosanostra Discord - Cosanostra#9359

imo to keep it fair and square i would suggest to set a 24h timer for a WQ and a player can only get 1 ticket. So everyone gets a fair time to do their WQ

I state it at the very beginning. +1 No one wants more that Greninja gets unbanned than me. I saw, read, and heard different opinions on both sides. The for side is that Greninja has unpredictable moveset beside Ice Beam, beacuse its always there. So this kick out all the facts, that things like Zapdos or Landorus can check it. We are left with things like Chansey/Ferrothorn/Clefable/Alomomola. Chansey checks Greninja's Low Kick, even with crit, its not gonna kill it. Softboiled, toxic easily walls it. So that is 1 counter. Ferrothorn runs 2 obvious move, and they are leech seed and stealth rocks. Every single Ferrothorn I faced had Protect, and they used to check it, whether Greninja has low kick or not. With hp fire, you cant do anything, basicly every special mon can suprise you with a super eff3ctive hidden power. Alomomola completely destroy Greninja, while Clefable survive Gunk Shot, while that move is rarely used. Now for the against part. Beside Greninja, I cant really name any other pokemon that can suprise you with moves, beacuse the rest of the meta mons pretty much have the same moveset, and you can easily play around it. Do we really want that? Do we really just want to click a move or switch and play pvp like workers in the factories? Or we want to like have tactics, that can suprise our enemy, or just simply outsmart them with different movesets. People say, that with adding Tapus and/or Toxapex, we might get back Greninja. Do we really want Toxapex? The most toxic stall mon ever created? Do we really want to see more disgusting combos with any defensive flying type? Are we prepared to face Tapu Koko in rain? Or just the Tapu+Lucha combo? Or we want to see scarfed Tapu Lele, with the terrain, that doesnt allow you to use priority moves? Or, we want the other fairy/steel Magearna? That after 1 or 2 shift gear, you are done, unless we have unaware Quagsire, beacuse Clefable gets destroyed. We are using Gen6 pokemon with Gen7 mechanics, and Greninja is banned. Talonflame's ability got nerfed a very long time ago, even tho, they say, we are using Gen6. I look at the ability, and its nerfed, while the change was made in Gen7.

Well for me. Greninja is so fragile. Some of pvp players dosnt know how to handle greninja. Even greninja cant kill chansey with 2 low kicks.

2m1

Awesome +1

Thanks for acknowledging that your points are bad 1) greninja can u turn out of walls Hmm, Nice reason to ban ninja 2) Megas + Ninjas Soo, any poke that help chip down oppo team is bannable. FACT IS any poke can do it, even a Rattata lol, what's with these synergies well with strong mons. Dude which mon wouldn't lol 3) Ban walls? Who said that? Did you read wrong post or are just too sleepy 4) Spikes Heyy, I am ninja I can spike. Again You are just proving my point. Why would a mon be banned for being able to use spike and also pressure defogger! Defog wastes a turn? Well as you said walls are part of game! Soo are hazards 5) Greninja is a chipper The dude who made these point is legit! He actually is, but before chipping oppo team he would be chipp his ownself lol. Greninja usually relys on life orb to gas his attacks you see. U turns, ice beams soo what!!! Any mon can do that to chip Opposite team. 6)4 move synodrom Again, tnks for proving my point. The thing requires 14 different moves to be perfect, how many it can keep "4" Let's ban it anyways since it can SPIKES 7) Swtich out Wow soo you guys do acknowledge switching out! Just do it the next time you see a ninja against you. Good Day ^^

-1

Really solid argument

Since the 6 pokemon you're using are called a "team", i thought they had to have synergy and cover each other's weaknesses while capitalizing on each other's strengths, which is why why greninja is so good because it can facilitate its teamates really well while being a threat on its own . But i guess i was wrong and this is not a valid argument.

"Opening Doors" Isnt that what Pokemon is about, teammates helping each other? Weavile clears way for mega Alakazam, Magnezone does the same for Mega Altaria. All I am trying to say is that these are not valid points for Ninja ban

I believe you didn't read the post, neither the discussion. I along with others here never stated how we love ninja, how we spent money on it ( I didnt anyway) , how we farmed ninja for hours, nor we asked for chansey or alomolola ban. Kindly go through it all for making a valid ban/ unban comment!

Im just boring waiting for a WQ that never happened, meanwhile I'm trying to show as I said at the beginning, facts about how fragile is greninja. I dont want to make fun of you, that wasnt my intention... ncie they remeber the WQ lets go hunt!

Thats how u check a gren not counter it. Please list some mons that can actually switch in to gren safely without worrying about the moves it runs

Please go back to what i posted and read again carefully , instead of reading only one part and nitpicking

Now instead put lowkick on that gren and then see what happens.If the gren here really did have lowkick and you didnt know,it would be a different story right?

If we unban Greninja we must unban Keckleon!!

Like, Can we please get a new location for those stones like even a side quest with brock for the Steelix quest? Like them being locked behind excavations is bad their UU stones, time gated behind a long time gate. Here's some questions to ask, When was the last time you've seen either of them in pvp? or used in general because of their location? Like you have to choose behind pvp items / Vitamins and other good consumables or choose their stone 99.9% of the players are choosing pvp items / Consumables because their stones just aren't worth the prices. Can we get them changed to like a proper quest like all the other mega's please. 1000pts isn't worth the cost. The current location of theses stones just seems like lazy design by the cs who put it into the game. Ps, Literally the mega Steelix quest writes its self, Start of the quest talk to brock in pewter, Help brock find out whats wrong with the colony of onix, realize the crystal onix went missing, help brock and his family beat team rocket to save the crystal Onix brock awards the Steelix stone after you beat the rocket leader.

Hello @Etrama13, Sorry for the inconvenience. Could you please try to open the Client, press F2 and type "clean reg". That should reset the Settings to default. And please let me know if it worked. Greetings, M3ru3m

Sold Umbreon relaxed