pvp rules Ranked PvP Rules.

[Shuldbdoinhw]

I'm still trying to figure out why snow cloak and sand veil are not banned abilities, Everything in the rules pretty much implies that you'd want them banned but the rules were phrased to exclude abilities that increase evasion, (and I can't find a moderators response to why they've done this on any forum post). Like this is an important rule that needs to be discussed not exactly sure how this has never been added to the discussion.

 

Tldr: when is snow cloak and sand veil going to be banned?

[Tenshimoru]

I'm still trying to figure out why snow cloak and sand veil are not banned abilities, Everything in the rules pretty much implies that you'd want them banned but the rules were phrased to exclude abilities that increase evasion, (and I can't find a moderators response to why they've done this on any forum post). Like this is an important rule that needs to be discussed not exactly sure how this has never been added to the discussion.

 

Tldr: when is snow cloak and sand veil going to be banned?

 

They are using a slightly revised Gen 6 OU Smogon Rule subset. The Evasion Clause included here is primarily targeted at moves like Double team and Minimize similar to Smogons and abilities like Sand Veil and Slow Cloak are considered legal in the same rule-set. Technically Flash should be taken off the illegal move set as well.

[Bladermagician]

I'm still trying to figure out why snow cloak and sand veil are not banned abilities, Everything in the rules pretty much implies that you'd want them banned but the rules were phrased to exclude abilities that increase evasion, (and I can't find a moderators response to why they've done this on any forum post). Like this is an important rule that needs to be discussed not exactly sure how this has never been added to the discussion.

 

Tldr: when is snow cloak and sand veil going to be banned?

 

They are using a slightly revised Gen 6 OU Smogon Rule subset. The Evasion Clause included here is primarily targeted at moves like Double team and Minimize similar to Smogons and abilities like Sand Veil and Slow Cloak are considered legal in the same rule-set. Technically Flash should be taken off the illegal move set as well.

 

No. All moves that include evasion drops and increases are banned here because accuracy is bugged in the game. This is why things like Muddy Water are banned. Sand Veil and Snow Cloak should be added or disabled because they add to the problem with the buggy accuracy.

[Shuldbdoinhw]

 

They are using a slightly revised Gen 6 OU Smogon Rule subset. The Evasion Clause included here is primarily targeted at moves like Double team and Minimize similar to Smogons and abilities like Sand Veil and Slow Cloak are considered legal in the same rule-set. Technically Flash should be taken off the illegal move set as well.

 

I don't think it's fair to assume the rules are based off of a Gen 6 OU smogon rule subset for two reasons,

1. It hasn't been officially stated it was based off Gen 6 OU smogon

2. There is a Clause that is exclusive to Gen 5 in the rules (Baton Pass).

 

 

 

Noted Bans from Gen 5 OU smogon -

 

1. Banned Abilities - A team cannot have a Pokemon with any of the following abilities: Sand Veil and Snow Cloak.

 

2. Drizzle + Swift Swim - Using both a Pokemon with Drizzle and a Pokemon with Swift Swim on the same team is banned.

 

3. Drought + Chlorophyll - Using both a Pokemon with Drought and a Pokemon with Chlorophyll on the same team is banned.

 

4. Sand Stream + Sand Rush - Using both a Pokemon with Sand Stream and a Pokemon with Sand Rush on the same team is banned.

 

5. Baton Pass Clause - A team cannot have more than one Pokemon with the move Baton Pass. A Pokemon with the move Baton Pass cannot have both a method of boosting its Speed and a method of boosting any other stats.

 

 

Noted Bans from Gen 6 OU smogon-

 

1. Endless Battle Clause - Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.

 

2. Swagger Clause - Players cannot use the move Swagger.

 

 

 

Gen 5 focused on increasing diversity in their meta by removing specific combinations of abilities in teams. Forcing players to rely on the use of Rain Dance/Sandstorm/Sunny Day moves to combo with strong abilities such as swift swim or stand rush.

 

(Removing those 3 combinations of weather related abilities on the same team could give Prankster users more use since they can be used to set weather conditions)

 

 

Honestly I'd like any combination of these three things to happen,

 

1. Weather abilities combinations and/or Snow Cloak/Sand Veil are banned from ranked.

Weather Abilities were a huge theme on the Banlist from Gen 5 OU, the attention was taken away from weather related abilities when mega evolutions were released, seeing as PRO doesn't have mega evolutions lots of players are resorting to these very strong ability combinations.

 

2. Remove the Swagger Clause. A lot of moves that Prankster users love to use aren't coded properly, I honestly feel removing the Swagger Clause [Which isn't a clause in Gen 5] would bring more balance to Prankster users who are currently missing key moves such as Encore or Substitute.

 

3. Remove the Baton Pass Clause. (Smogon clearly had good reasons to remove the Baton Pass Clause from Gen 5-> Gen 6, it shouldn't be a problem removing this clause (ESPECIALLY when there aren't any bans placed on weather related abilities).

[Tenshimoru]

...

 

I don't think it's fair to assume the rules are based off of a Gen 6 OU smogon rule subset for two reasons,

1. It hasn't been officially stated it was based off Gen 6 OU smogon

2. There is a Clause that is exclusive to Gen 5 in the rules (Baton Pass).

...

 

It hasn't been made official but most of the move sets (for those with the proper movesets anyway) are based on the Gen 6 movesets. Not to mention the game has a majority of the gen 6 dex excluding legionaries (and megas) of courses are in the game at the moment. It would be expected for them to be using the rules of that same gen, and would make little sense to set them back to a Gen before there were created and put into comp.

 

Also a direct-link to the actual X/Y Gen 6 Blanket Clauses.

https://www.smogon.com/xy/articles/clauses

 

And the Gen 6 OU Specific Clauses.

https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/ou/

 

You'll can see from the actual website what they actually have for X/Y. Drizzle + SS, Drought + Chloro and Sand Stream + SR were made legal in that gen while Evasion is still tier wide and BP clause was still in effect up to the OU tier.

 

As for your suggestions you should probably take that up with the widespread PVP community across the three server but it's unlikely anyone will go for those changes.

...

Yea if that's the main issue with it then sure I'd say put in a request for a vote on it. I was simply pointing out to Shuld the base "Evasion Clause" does not include the abilities in Gen 6, rest was speculation why I said technically Flash (and other move like it) wouldn't be on the list normally, but if for buggy effects due to this games coding sure go for it lol.

[Shuldbdoinhw]

Before I comment on that let me bring up a bug that's clearly misleading in pvp and needs to be looked into:

 

When Sand Stream is activated after Drought has been on the field, the symbol that indicates it's sunny remains on the screen, but the sand storm clearly is damaging Pokemon. These kinds of graphical bugs would give anyone who doesn't know about it an insane disadvantage because they'd be under the assumption that they have all the benefits of it being sunny.

 

Anyways...

 

 

It hasn't been made official but most of the move sets (for those with the proper movesets anyway) are based on the Gen 6 movesets. Not to mention the game has a majority of the gen 6 dex excluding legionaries (and megas) of courses are in the game at the moment. It would be expected for them to be using the rules of that same gen, and would make little sense to set them back to a Gen before there were created and put into comp.

 

 

I don't see how you can completely disregard the foundation of Gen 6 OU's rule set. I understand what you're trying to say, but until the game has EVERY SINGLE ability and move coded properly for gen 6, gen 5 rules should be very much part of the conversation, and seeing as how many moves in Pro and abilities aren't coded properly, or haven't been coded yet, it'd make little to no sense to not consider regulating weather combination abilities for balancing purposes, as well as promoting diversity in competitive pvp teams.

 

 

 

(looking back)

Also I apologize for mentioning Baton Pass Clause, I was lacking sleep when I typed that and realized Baton Pass was in fact banned in gen 6, but didn't get a chance to go back and correct myself.

[Bladermagician]

Wrap also works similar to Mean Look and Whirlpool and should be banned

[Tenshimoru]

...

 

Again I'm only pointing out an inaccuracy in the use of the clauses you posted I was never here to talk about how they operate in this games current pvp, like I said to blader if its about buggy problems then request a vote on it, I ain't got an issue on that go for it m8.

 

Also in regards to the rule sets, like I said in my first post the ruleset is or at least seems to be focused on a revised Gen 6 OU. It not a fully focused rule set due to the fact EVERY ability isn't in but, it would be hard to place rulings on the OU and BL Mon from Gen 6 that ARE working if you didn't take that gens rule into account. That being said a few abilities/moves from 5, 4 and even before that aren't working as well (eg. trace, illusion, mold breaker, overcoat, zen mode, heck sheer force was only added when sinnoh was released, lack of TR etc.) but we aren't going to fall back to gen 2/3 rules because of that are we? No. I get what you're trying to say but, to me personally, it would make little sense to set the rules back to focus on a previous gen when they are also incomplete in a few aspects themselves.

 

It's always been hard to promote diversity in comp pvp teams. There's a reason the Smogon tier listing were made in the first place, and as we lack a tier split it's gonna be less likely you see someone rocking a shiny Dunsparce or a Sunny day whims and RD sable in comp when talon, bro, bliss, and weather setters are in play, that's just how it rolls. I mean I'm the type of person to play those regardless of what everyone else is doing. I even rock an Evio Golbat in half my teams so I say if you wanna see more diversity do it yourself.

 

Once more, if it's an issue on bugs involving the moves/abilities then again go ahead request a vote for it, I ain't gonna argue that :y:. That's all I got to say on this

[Adonar]

Unaware is for when please ?

[Pandamanid]

for this -->

8. Unaware is currently banned from ranked PvP until fix. The ability ignores more empower stats than it should (Example: Choice Band)

An Unaware Clefable with Softboiled and a Poison Heal Gliscor with Defog, respectively, are banned from ranked play. This is due to the introduction of Hidden Abilities in Gen5 and those moves being removed from the respective Pokemon's movepool in Gen5. Video evidence is required.

 

so i can use

 

unaware clefable that not use softboiled

and defog at skarmory?

 

or i cant use defog and unaware at all?