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With all due respect, the current policy with regard to PvP has no basis in suspect tests and bears almost no relation to the concept. Suspect tests are conducted to gather information on the Pokemon, move, item, or ability in question. Banning Baton Pass before any consideration is not a suspect test. Asking if a Pokemon that has been available for two weeks but is difficult to access (reroll tickets + ability capsule) should be banned is not a suspect test. There has never been a suspect test on PRO, because half the voters in any given test have never played with nor against the thing being tested. There needs to be a real mechanism for suspect testing, preferably one which artificially inflates the usage of the topic in question - as the things the community at large consider broken are inaccessible to many. If staff prefer to continue to manage the metagame by decree, that is perfectly fine, but neither this nor other recent actions have resembled a suspect test at all.

I would like to specify that I am in favor of a Landorus ban. Now that I got that out of the way, I would like to mention a few things. Do not blindly follow Smogon. Why? Because, by that logic, Greninja should also be banned as it was in the Uber tier in ORAS OU and was only made more bearable in USUM OU thanks to new additions such as Toxapex, Tapu Fini, and whatnot. This is an important point because following Smogon entails banning Greninja and only unbanning it in the future. I would also like to remind all our Smogon lovers that Greninja was suspect tested before Landorus in ORAS OU. In fact, Greninja received more pro-ban votes than Landorus did. PRO was able to adapt to Greninja, which is still extremely strong on paper, yet somehow keeps underperforming. There are various reasons for this, such as the priority spam, but this is not a post about Greninja. I only brought it up to showcase why PRO is inherently different than Showdown and should abide by its own rules. "Smogon banned it, therefore it should be banned in PRO" is a moot point. Can you tell me why you think Landorus should be banned? There are certainly several pro-ban arguments that are applicable to PRO. However, I would like to tell you guys why it should not be banned and let you figure out why you so adamantly want it banned. ABR gave some good anti-ban arguments during the Landorus suspect test. In PRO, Landorus has the potential to beat all of its checks, with the exception of Cresselia, but is unable to beat all of them at the same time. In this, Landorus is somewhat similar to Greninja and Manaphy. It does not have a 4MSS since it can still effectively do its job with the moves that it picks. What do you run on Landorus? There are so many sets! Earth Power is mandatory, but the other options are so varied: Sludge Wave, Focus Blast, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice, Knock Off, Rock Polish, Calm Mind, etc. On Showdown, everyone was able to use and abuse a perfect Landorus with HP Ice and 331 speed (which is above the critical 328-speed tier). How many people have a good Landorus with HP Ice? Without HP Ice, which is hard to get, Landorus is prone to losing to Gliscor, Landorus-T, and many more threats. In general, depending on its set, Landorus-T can be easily revenge killed (especially if it chooses to run Calm Mind over Rock Polish) or even checked by the likes of Skarmory, Tornadus-T, Gliscor, Chansey, Latios/Latias, Gyarados, Slowking, Cresselia, etc. Can it beat all of them (minus Cresselia)? Yes, of course, but it is unable to beat all of them at once! Scout before attempting to check Landorus with your Gliscor or Chansey. On top of that, it is not easy to get Landorus in for free with the way that U-turn and Volt Switch work in PRO. Due to how rarely used Landorus is, players might not necessarily always prepare for it. You also have to choose between Landorus and Landorus-T, since you are unable to use both. However, the lack of preparation for Landorus is not a pro-ban argument. Why? Because Landorus is not overcentralizing to an unhealthy extent; many of its checks are naturally used on several teams and will remain highly viable long after Landorus gets the chop. Do you know what is actually quite overcentralizing in PRO at the moment? Manaphy. That is something you have to be specifically prepared for in order to avoid getting 6-0'd. Power Whip Ferrothorn, Unaware Clefable, Chansey, priority users, and faster threats are all increasingly common. Yet, Manaphy is able to beat all those threats with the right coverage: HP Fire for Ferrothorn, Rain Dance for Chansey, maybe Mystic Water and a Modest nature for most Unaware Clefable sets, barring perhaps the uncommon Calm Unaware set, etc. Somewhat similarly to Landorus, Manaphy is able to beat all its checks, but cannot beat them all at once. Despite everything I just said, I am in favor of a Landorus ban. I have read and researched enough to make up my own opinion on the matter. Does it mean that I am unable to acknowledge arguments that do not align with what I think? No, absolutely not! We should not be too Manichean or too categorical. In Landorus' case, I believe that the pro-ban arguments far outweigh the anti-ban arguments. This is why it should be banned, in my opinion. But do all of you know what the valid pro-ban arguments are? Have you even seen enough of Landorus in PvP to make such a definitive pro-ban decision?

Rotom-Wash - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 110-131 (36.1 - 43%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 139-165 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Ferrothorn - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 216-255 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 185-218 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 265-312 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 309-367 (87.7 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO Gliscor - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 208+ SpD Gliscor: 286-338 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 400-473 (113.6 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Alomomola - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 422-499 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Chansey - 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 361-426 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 257-304 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Skarmory - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 270-318 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Quagsire - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 321-380 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Clefable - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 175-208 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 250-294 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Zapdos - 4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 179-213 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 177-208 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 172-203 (44.9 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Garchomp - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 261-308 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 359-426 (85.4 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO Muk-Alola - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 234-276 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO AV Conkeldurr - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 157-187 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO AV Tyranitar - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 218-260 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Heatran (lol) - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 629-749 (162.9 - 194%) -- guaranteed OHKO Here are some funny calcs. Basically, if you have an HP Ice Lando with H.A, you can break through almost every walls in the current state of the game. (if you look at those calcs, the following set (hidden power ice, sludge wave, earth power, focus blast) is ONLY getting "checked" by Chansey. (but you're not running 6 landos in your team and you are supposed to have an answer to the pink blob) Don't you find this already beyond broken ? Allowing sheer force lando which is a monster (cannot be checked effectively, amazing double typing, legendary stats, good speed and insane coverage) is a complete nonsense imo. You can't just let it in the game EVEN if it has a low usage. Would you bring ubers like Reshiram and Zekrom because "'it's hard to get a good one" ? Usage is not a valid argument in this case. Here are more calcs with more offensive mons : Gengar - 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 177-208 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 262-310 (82.1 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 572-678 (219.1 - 259.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Banded Dragonite - 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 160-189 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 156-185 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 312-369 (96.5 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO Regular Conkeldurr - 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 63-74 (19.7 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 321-380 (77.5 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 321-380 (91.4 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO Banded Azumarill - 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 260-308 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 387-458 (113.1 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 274-324 (80.1 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Banded Scizor - 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 177-208 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 274-324 (85 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO +2 Breloom - +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 152-179 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 236 HP / 176 SpD Breloom: 382-450 (119.3 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Togekiss - 252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 156-184 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 286-338 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO Bisharp - 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 175-207 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 611-720 (225.4 - 265.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Volcarona - 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 265-312 (83 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 218-257 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 634-749 (203.8 - 240.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Manaphy - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 227-269 (66.5 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Kingdra - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 239-282 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Greninja (in case you wanted to switch-in on it) - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 302-356 (105.9 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO Weavile (same as stated above) - 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 261-308 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO And don't forget Lando has access to the following moves : - Calm Mind - Rock Polish - Stealth Rock - Defog - Bulk Up - Swords Dance - U-Turn - Knock Off ^ Means a LOT of different sets that can work with this mon. I'm 100% for the ban.

wait what??? why do we even considering to unban that. It's 100% BAN for h.a landorus. this pokemon never have been unbanned or suspect test on showdown OU ladder because if there are 100 pvp players on high ladder, 99 of them will say this poke is broken as hell. even dugtrio or blaziken h.a is more balance than this poke. Super fast nidoking with calm mind and bulk up boosting, and an ability to break any walls with super good typing, hell NO.

I agree, because of its unpredictability of its inmense move pool it should be banned.

Holà, I've done 129 games in Ranked PVP this month. And you know what ? I didn't meet any Landorus-Incarnate. I also didn't play it at all. And i'm pretty sure the amount of person who played/faced it is pretty pretty low. So I'm answering you, how should we do a suspect test if the mon is not even played ? I can bring some arguments which will be totally theoretical (like your ban baton pass, because apparently only 4 players on both server know how to play it), or I should also give some arguments from Smogon, but will they really work ? No, because we're on PRO. If you want to do a real suspect test, prepare a procedure, a process so that the mon is tested in a good and fair way. But this thread is, in my opinion, absurd, with all due respect. Fum.

Speaking for myself only - I am not speaking on behalf of staff - I agree these items and Pokemon should remain locked in banned accounts. Here's why: These may have been obtained in a non-permitted way, such as bug abuse, macro use, RMT, hacked, stolen, etc. If rules were broken, the "earnings" should not be distributed, as without rule breaking, they wouldn't exist. I cannot think of a realistic way to distribute the earnings from an auction like this, without that, it becomes a money sink that could negatively affect the in-game economy. Maybe a more controversial point - staff aren't perfect, we're human. An appeal may have been handled poorly (mistake or otherwise). In cases where an appeal is granted after a second look, the player should be able to continue where they left off. If their possessions are auctioned, these will be lost with no possible way to return them, as a result of a staff member's mistake. I appreciate 3 years ago Red did this, I don't personally agree with the decision for the above reasons - just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should. That being said, I do like this idea for one reason - that it gives players more opportunity to get their hands on rare Pokemon and items, but there's far less detrimental ways to do this. I won't make any suggestions here because I'd like to keep this on topic, it's an interesting discussion, and I wanted to share my thoughts.

116 Matches - 62 wins - 53,4% Winrate on Gold 423 Matches - 236 Wins - 55,79% Winrate on Silver This is for people with above 200 rating. This in on par with other things based on usage stats however I would suspect some are higher if you filter out bad players and only filter by rating +200. Greninja? People cried and wanted it banned, it got coded because it wouldn't stay banned. Shaymin-Sky? It was insta banned and people complained about it being an option against Manaphy and that we are dumb for banning it. Baton Pass? We get yelled at for banning it in a test-period while its banned on Showdown. Now with Lando people come and yell its "Uber","its banned on Showdown/Smogon". PRO is not a battle simulator, it's not showdown/smogon or that other unnamed Pokemon MMO. I wanted a PvP council because of this fact, people don't know what they want, especially in this community. There are like 5 people in this thread who understood this thread for example: Jorogumo It seems like we can't win regardless of what we do, any and all PvP suggestions by me got instantly shutdown to change up the meta like rotating bans to allow a more versatile PvP game but at this point, I can just really say. Enjoy your 6 tanks and 1 hour matches. From the looks of it and people complaining about it, it's gonna get banned but really its just meh.

With all due respect, it seems that everyone is talking about theoretical stuff, like what it could be doing, how everyone just says its broken and how it is banned on showdown (which honestly I can’t stand hearing anymore, because you all cite showdown only when it’s convenient for you and otherwise you say it’s another game, which in fact it is). I would like to see some real pro related evidence for this poke to be banned, but I can to see any. Now, who can say he had real and consistent problems with Lando in PRO pvp? It’s been out for a while and I have encountered only one so far and I didn’t have trouble at all handling it. This is for both the facts that it’s hard to obtain a good one, since its does not only require good stats, ha and possibly hp ice, but also because many super common pokes used in our meta do not have troubles killing (Weavile, Greninja, Rain sweepers) or walling it (Chansey and some others). So if you have problems because it breaks your stall team, that’s unfortunate, but I sure not agree that that’s reason enough to make such a big deal of this Poke and claim it disrupts the whole game without any proof of it doing it. On the other hand, a Poke which is far more broken in my opinion is Manaphy, so easy to abuse and so hard to revenge kill. And on top of that, PRO is lacking several means to take it on as well, which is not the case with Lando. However, nobody is taking action on it, but everyone rather bans a poke which is not even giving trouble. In the end my post might be for nothing because everyone here is voting for ban. But at least let’s not hide the fact that the most people voting for ban have most probably never even faced or had troubles with Lando in PRO and then abuse Manaphy or Scarf Kiss but are ok with them being allowed because in showdown, which as a completely different meta, they are not Ubers.

Well I am going to be really specific on this. I am used to showdown OU, (Rank 49, 75, 142, 58 and won few tournaments) and I can tell Landorus-I was a big problem in there, with the megas and Z moves he was monster, but he also have some weakness, and not having Z moves and Megas yet in PRO make weaker and not so strong as he was on Showdown, he can be destroyed by a good amount of pokemons, you just gotta play carefully against him. He is a really good stall breaker and we all know that stall is a problem in PRO, is overused and someone that spams it can easily get on top 25 without much effort. Having Landorus-I in the game could lower the amount of Stallers and balance the game overall, I already saw many people play Tornadus Assault Vest on stall and over using it because is a good way to win but people don't complain about it because it help their playstyle, they complain about Lando-I because they fear it and want it out of the game so they have less pokes to worry about. I see so many comments here of clueless people that don't have a idea of what they are actually saying. My final decision, do not ban it yet, unless we all see he is making a HUGE difference in the meta we can keep it. This is not Showdown and here Landorus-I do not have the same resources.

Yeah -1. Also the selling process would be messy and this would be too much of workload for the Trade Moderators in my opinion.

Why can't we just instantly ignore every Showdown/Smogon based comment and focus only on what's actually relevant to PRO? Honestly, I am sick of using another game (actually a simulator) to take decisions and make arguments about PRO.

I am not in favor of banning him. Having played landorus h.a on PRO (30atk/28spd/22spatk), i can say that it is definetly strong. You could compare it to conkeldurr when it came out (and had no checks) or manaphy/rain teams. He is strong in the PRO meta. He checks pokemon slower than him easily. But wasn't that the case for manaphy and conkeldurr ? How many people abused those pokes, even easier to get than landorus ? He is not broken to the point where he outspeed and ohko everything actually, jolly garchomp is faster than him,18.8% chance to OHKO with outrage (on a perfect landorus with life orb), infernape hp ice can ohko it while being much faster, dragonite can tank a hit, set up and kill lando, gengar hits 80% of his life at the very least (with shadow ball), and gengar even has access to icy wind. My point is, he's strong, not broken. You can easily counter him, it's just that people aren't used to it yet (the majority). They are many other pokes you can use to counter him even without ice shard. If you want the meta to change, i think it would be worth a shot to keep him a few months longer to see if players can adapt to his playstyle, especially because not many people have landorus h.a now, so not everyone can play against it. How many people will have an hp ice lando ? we're not on sd, people don't get perfect landorus. They invest in it to get something pvpable, with no garentee of it working. Lastly, here are some pokes that check landorus pretty easily that i haven't mentionned yet: Azumarill aqua jet aerodactyl icy fang weavile mamoswine kyurem scarf latios/latias ice beam rotom hydro-bump bulky assault vest conkeldurr icy punch manaphy chansey/blissey any ice atk choice scarfed skarmory, bronzong Medicham scarfed Landorus's poor bulk leaves it vulnerable to most faster threats. I'm sure there are many others. Pokemon is a game where you have to adapt and overcome, remember when you couldn't beat brock with your charmander ? it's exactly the same, don't expect the meta to change to your tastes. Be creative, it's up to you to adapt to the meta and climb the ladder.

To complete what you said we must add that Manaphy was Uber in BW. And as PRO is somewhere between BW and X/Y I think it should have been banned for having forced the meta to play around ferrothorn/rotom wash/ unaware clef because of rain teams. Regarding Landorus with Sheer Force, it’s true that PRO environment (uturn doesn’t work properly, godly iv hard to obtain for common mortals etc) makes it difficult to be compared to the threat it was on showdown but do we have to wait for someone to find the good compo to expose how broken it can be on PRO ? Because our meta already manages to deal with it by using weavile as revenge killer or strong priority from azumarill and mamoswine does it really mean this is healthy for the meta ? I tought a good reason for banning a pokemon was how he limits team building. For me this is definitely the case with landorus sheer force.

First. OK so... Yeah, I don't PVP a lot, but all the people that I know that are really good PvPers say that it's going to be banned anyways, so why not? :)

Hey there, I am Qeight, one of the newer Game Masters, before that I was the Moderator Team Lead. I asked for this thread to be moved into public viewing again as I believe there is value in having our viewpoints stated publicly as well. The post is a bit of a mix so I'll dissect the points 1 by 1. All bans, are manual bans. Automated bans haven't been taking place for quite a long time now ( around 2+ years). You are hitting on two completely different subjects as well. Unauthorized software is something like botting software, speedhacks, any kind of third party software while having "too many accounts" are simple mistakes that get unbanned in 99/100 cases, the 1 case being someone who yells and insults staff for their ban (even though they haven't read the rules). Good question, we don't know. I banned people with 6000 hours and 6 hours for doing the same thing, unfortunately your hours, status, money donated and what not don't matter when banning someone. We have to treat all players equally and fairly, based on the punishment policy. Friends often lie, it's the internet, nobody wants to be seen as a cheater. If you can put your hands in a fire for a friend, you will get burned if they swear they didn't cheat. The appeal center is there for honest players, unless you are banned for investigation purposes you are guilty. It's not "innocent until proven guilty", we banned you because we proved that you were guilty through methods we never gonna disclose. We are not disclosing them for obvious reasons. It really depends on the ban itself, all are done manually to ensure there isn't anything wrong with the bans. If you are banned for macro- usage or any 3rd party programs you are guilty by default otherwise you wouldn't have been banned. Mass-account bans are often due to people sharing accounts, it is indeed very hard to distinguish who is who sometimes, if you have 30 accounts use the same device. Mass account bans are 99/100 cases successful and people get unbanned. Here is my take on this, PRO had an automated system during the time Shane was still a Dev. The system flagged you for simply lagging out, creating bans that weren't accurate. There were a few auto bans like "Auto Ban: S2" was one of the more faulty ones while "Auto Ban: Third Party Software" was 100% accurate. This system was removed a very long time ago and replaced with something way more secure made by Eaty. What exactly gets detected, how detection works is only need-to-know basis within staff as well. At first nobody was getting banned and then people got banned in waves, this of course raised questions about how detection works even within staff. I was by far the loudest voice against it because the story was always the same "I didn't do anything", "I didn't cheat" & so on. I was only a Moderator at the time, not a Game Master who deals with this kind of stuff but I had my doubts and I made my doubts be heard loudly. However overtime bans slowed down, people were still getting banned for it, the bans were made more severe over time to a permanent ban for users' who cheat. Eaty is very confident in his anti-cheat and we have to trust that. It would be not logical to think that Eaty wants people to be banned for no reason or faulty bans. It goes against everything Eaty is trying with this game. I came to that realization after I left staff for 3 months. I would correct that, we banned more than 10 users, some of those were detected months ago but weren't banned due to shortage of GMs. This is on us but we are catching up, hence you might see increased numbers of bans. I think you are confusing something, yes anti-cheats can not detect all cheats, that's a fault on the anti-cheat but saying our system is faulty because "people are innocent get banned"? Our system detects known cheat programs to us. The chances that you are detected and innocent equal 0. It stays open till people starts insulting staff or yell at each other.

Information regarding Level 100 Pokemon Recently, the Mysterious Candy was added to the game. It will allow you to evolve a Level 100 Pokemon that meets all requirements for leveling up (e.g. happiness requirements). This means that the Deleveling Megathread is now redundant, hence why this service has been removed. You can purchase Mysterious Candies in the following locations from the respective Item Vendors: Celadon City, Goldenrod City, Lilycove City and Veilstone City Department Stores (5.000 Pokedollars) PvE Coin Shop (2 PvE Coins) PvP Coins Shop (1 PvP Coin) Rules and context We made this thread for you to request help with trade evolutions, stuck evolutions. All you have to do is make a post here. There is no need to create a new thread about it. Once the evolution has been done, we will edit your post saying that your request has been resolved and you'll receive a forum notification. In order to keep the thread clean, we ask to not post if it's not involving a request for a trade evolution, stuck evolution or a delevel request. All off-topic posts will get deleted. Note You may also request staff assistance in our Official PRO Discord in the #request-chat channel. Feel free to join and ask for a staff member by specifying your server and in-game name. What do you need to post? If requesting a trade evolution, such as Kadabra: Tell us your server Your in-game name And your GMT Timezone Fill out the following information Trade Request In-game name: Server: GMT Timezone: Discord Tag (Optional): What do I need to post in order to request help for a simple trade evolution? Post here, or on our Official PRO Discord in the requests-chat channel, your in-game name, username, server and time available to do the trade in GMT timezone. Make sure to do that by copying the template above. Which Pokemon can you help me to evolve? Pokemon that evolve through trading. Please note that we do not provide evolutionary items, don't forget to have one with you before requesting for any support. Pokemon that can evolve through specific areas like Leafeon, Glaceon and Sylveon and Pokemon that can evolve via happiness are not concerned by trading. How long will I have to wait? If you're requesting a trade evolution, a Community Coordinator will help you, according to their timezone. It may take some time if both sides are not available. Feel free to join our Official PRO Discord to get a quicker answer if no one is available here. Nobody is coming online to help me trade evolve, what do I do? Remain patient and keep on playing until a staff member is available to help you. Don't make more posts as those will be deleted. I don't get it, show me an example of a filled template? Pokemon that evolve via happiness We can't help evolving these as trading will reset the happiness of your Pokemon, and trading is the main component to fix the evolutions. However you can still make evolve your Pokemon yourself. For example if you have a level 100 Riolu, make sure to have max happiness (255) and make it battle during the day. It works for all Pokemon that require happiness during their evolution process. Concerned Pokemon: Area themed Pokemon We can't help you with a Pokemon that evolve by earning a level in a specific area. If you missed to evolve a level 100 Magneton, then you will have to delevel your pokemon using the Mysterious Candy item that you can buy for PVE or PVP coins. Concerned Pokemon: Pokemon that evolve by having a specific move You don't require our support if you missed to evolve a Pokemon that should normally evolve by having a specific move. For example if you have a level 100 Yanma that usually evolve by knowing Ancient Power, then just go through a wild battle and defeat the Pokemon. Your Yanma will still evolve even if stuck at level 100. It works for all Pokemon that are concerned by this evolution process. Concerned Pokemon: Make a Pokemon back to a previous state It's impossible and we do not offer this kind of support. However you can de-evolve a pokemon by using the Mysterious Candy item that you can buy for PVE or PVP coins.

Fast and Efficient Boss Run Route Good day and welcome to the Fast and Efficient Boss Run Route! This guide will give you a Fast and Efficient route to do Boss Run! Additionally, this is tailored for non transit pass holders to maximize time and reduce spending on travel. Disclaimer: This is not a boss guide but i will give suggestion as to what i use. Required Pokemons ➺ Your Boss Team ➺ Pikachu ➺ 1 x Fire type ➺ 1 x Ghost type ➺ 2 x Steel type ➺ Iron Defense Note: Boss requirements may change over time. Suggested Team This suggested team will satisfy all the requirements previously mentioned with additional purposes. Reserves Klefki ➺ Steel + Switcheroo || Empoleon ➺ Steel + Stealth Rock + Feather Dance + Iron Defense || Ampharos ➺ Eerie Impulse Gengar ➺ Ghost + Destiny Bond || Gyarados ➺ Sweeper || Haxorus ➺ Sweeper Pikachu ➺ Everyone loves Pikachu || Delphox ➺ Fire type + Skill Swap + Switcheroo Kanto Route [spoiler=Start: Cinnabar Island ➺ End: Vermilion City] ➺ Cinnabar Island Professor Oak ➺ Cinnabar Island Lab Room 2 ➺ Mt Silver Terminator ➺ Mt Silver Moltres Chamber ➺ Viridian Forest Erika ➺ Viridian Maze ➺ Pewter City Officer Shamac ➺ Pewter Jail George ➺ Pewter Jail ➺ Cerulean City Naero ➺ Cerulean Cave B1F ➺ Route 25 Entei Guardian ➺ Route 25 Cave ➺ Saffron City Chuck ➺ Saffron Gold's Gym Koichi ➺ Saffron Dojo Nikola ➺ Unknown Place ➺ Lavender City Urahara ➺ Pokemon Tower 3F ➺ Celadon City Jessie & James ➺ Celadon City ➺ Vermilion City The Pumpkin King ➺ Vermilion City Graveyard Xylos ➺ Vermilion Pokemon Club Brock ➺ Diglett's Cave ➺ Vermilion Docks Officer Jenny ➺ Pinkan Lighthouse 2F Klohver ➺ Pinkan Island Meadow Prehax ➺ Munchlax Resort Shary & Shaui ➺ Love Island House 1 Jhoto Route [spoiler=Start: Olivine City ➺ End: Ilex Forest] ➺ Olivine Docks Suspicious Bot ➺ Dock Island House 1 Battle Bot ➺ Dock Island House 2 Bugsy ➺ Amazon Forest ➺ Route 41 Misty ➺ Route 41 Thor ➺ Whirl Island B4F ➺ Route 42 Bruno ➺ Mt. Mortar Lower Cave ➺ Lake of Rage Suicune Guardian ➺ Secluded Lake ➺ Ice Path Lorelei ➺ Ice Path B2F ➺ Blackthorn City Lance ➺ Dragons Shrine ➺ Violet City Sage ➺ Sprout Tower 3F ➺ Ruins of Alph Proffesor Elm ➺ Research Center ➺ Goldenrod City Pewdie & Diepy ➺ Goldenrod Gaming Corner ➺ Ilex Forest Neroli ➺ Ilex Forest Hoenn Route [spoiler=Start: Lilycove City ➺ End: Valley of Steel] ➺ Eumi Island Tigerous ➺ Eumi Island Theme Park 2 ➺ Route 122 Morty ➺ Mt Pyre 4F ➺ Slateport City / Route 108 Toothless ➺ Abandoned Ship B1F Room 1 ➺ Route 110 Raikou Guardian ➺ Secret Base Alpha Lt Surge ➺ New Mauville ➺ Verdanturf Town Professor Brich ➺ Verdanturf Town House 2 ➺ Route 111 Naruto Fanboy ➺ Desert Ruins ➺ Route 112 Gingery Jones ➺ Feral Site ➺ Lavaridge Town Steven ➺ Valley Of Steel Sinnoh Route [spoiler=Start: Canalave City ➺ End: Cave of Justice] ➺ Survival Area / Route 227 Saphirr ➺ Route 227 ➺ Jubilife City Professor Rowan ➺ Jubilife City School ➺ Sandgem Town Spectify ➺ Sandgem Town House ➺ Twinleaf Town Link ➺ Twinleaf Town ➺ Route 203 Medusa & Eldir ➺ Legends Cave ➺ Valley Windworks Letrix ➺ Valley Windworks ➺ Floraroma Meadow Maribela ➺ Floraroma Meadow ➺ Mt Coronet Ash Westbrook ➺ Ash Westbrook ➺ Route 210 North Logan ➺ Cave Of Justice [spoiler=Total Spending] Trainers Valley ➺ 10k Pinkan Island ➺ 5k Love Island ➺ 5k Kanto - Jhoto ➺ 5k Jhoto - Hoenn ➺ 5k Lilycove City - Slateport City ➺ 2.5k Valley of Steel ➺ 5k Lavaridge Town - Lilycove City ➺ 2.5k Hoenn - Sinnoh ➺ 5k Canalave City - Survival Area ➺ 2.5k Survival Area - Jubilife City ➺ 2.5k ------------------------------------------------------- Total Spending = $50,000

I thought about a couple of ideas for different mounts that could be added Land Mounts: Galvantula (I would buy this one in a heartbeat) Metagross Motorcycle Surfing Mounts: Raft Lotad Blastoise (or anyone from that evolution line if it's easier) Player Swimming (honestly not sure if it can work but figured I'd mention anyway) Figured other people would also have some ideas too Kinda curious to see what you guys come up with

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Start : 350k Min Raise : 50k Insta : 1m Auction Ends After 48H Of First Bid Accept CC(400k), Reroll(650k)

Was a swindle and i cancel trade. He told me that i was going ti ban bit i canto trade with he

This is interesting, i cant speak for everyone but it seems that sf landos arent really too present on the pvp ladder, which i can understand giving how dificult it can be too get an actual good one, thus far i was only able to see exclusivez having one thats was pvpable. Which probably means we'll only get an educated opinion outside of its smogon presence from the next ladder tour if lando i is allowed there. Most people have already talked about how versatile it is so i dont think anyone wants to hear it again. One thing to note about this guy is that hes one of the few mons that can excel at any matchup giving the right set, mons like these in the current meta that can be compare to lando are manaphy and arguably torn-t. The diference however, is that its much scarier for the player to scout lando than the other two, if lando-i has an oportunity to make a move, the player is put on immediate pressure, automatically, and sure some mons like banded diggersby or conk are capable of doing that as well, however they dont impact the same amount of pressure on every single playstyle like lando is capable of. Thats why its 4mss, while a setback, doesnt necessarily mean its not as destructive, as of currently, taking in regards every single set that lando can use, there is only one true counter to it being cresselia, which needless to say, isnt exactly the pinnacle of viability. So as it stands leaving the opponent guessing what set it could probably be out of all the options between rock polish, cm, scarf, rocks, 4 attacks etc. and between its ofensive coverage of focus blast, sludge wave, psychic, rock slide or even a potential hp ice, really puts the player backed into a corner, which to me sounds a bit overwhelming. I am currently leaning towards a ban but i dont have anything set in stone in my mind just yet.

This playlist might also help.It might not be the same route with your suggestions but still if someone does not know the particular place to go this will be helpful. Nice guilde!

Tornadus-T is broken. However, no one is complaining about it here because it is not the subject of the thread.

Metagross is already in the game. I'd LOVE the Colosseum bike SO MUCH though. And the scooter from XD too.

Sure but give me like 30 minutes to come online.

PKMN: Lucario Starting Offer: 500k Minimum Raise/Bid Increment: 50k No insta available. Auction ends 36hrs after the first bid. Feel free to send me a message in-game or thru discord. ign: Xdagz Discord: i changed my name again#8523 Thank you and as always, more power to PRO!

ty

@UncleDeo Please read the trade rules before creating a thread. There is absolutly no reason to spam your thread every minute. People can see the comments and count from there. Ignoring this warning will result in a punishment. Have a nice day, Sincerly Hawluchaa

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my opinión is that landorus ha should be banned. it is a uber poke, with sheer forcé hasnt recoil on life orb, and with that ítem, can kill all pokes so easy, clefable 1 shot sludge bomb , ferro 1 shot focus blast if full def, if sassy full spef 70%, even channsey dont stop this beast , etc etc , its so broken, more broken that blaziken ha.

LOL... Bann Landorus with Sheer Force or allow Dugtrio with Arena Trap and Blaziken with Speed Boost.

Ban the demon. It was nice while it lasted but overall the life orb sheer force set along with it's wide movepool is a massive massive game changer.

You dont need to play pvp to understand wheather something deserves a ban or not.And since we are taking shots,i believe i udnerstand pretty well how meta works...the "some guy" as you recall it got 730 points the last time i was playing the game just cause i understand how it works. If you wanna throw in stats in every post then keep doing it.but since people seems to understand actions better than theory,then what youa re trying to show to the community is that a baby cannot kill you with its hands.I happen to allready know that.but do you?cuase it doesnt seem like you do.

You don't compare landorus with blaziken speed boost without a reason. With other words, ban h.a land.

"This is for people with above 200 rating." please stop using this sentence.its just making your arguement less valuable....and stop pointing out the winrates i pro.im not trying to be toxic but its super cringe cause i am tired of typing that people on pro tha make ladder are not even decent anymore...so imagine if people on ladder are not even decentmhow bad players with 200-300 rating are...and you taking them as a factor to point statistics as an arguement

Also, staff is not looking for "Ban because is forbidden in showdown" comments, we want actual reasons (why it should be banned or why not, with sceneries for example). Like some persons did. If you want creat your metagame ban every pokemons with 50% usage on showdown like landorus

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it should not be banned. Just remove h.a.

Greetings everyone, I want to state a few things to clarify the reason why we did this: Of course, we want to see the community's opinion on the pokemon. Mainly see the real problem, if its the pokemon itself whats broken or just the hidden ability. We are well aware thats its banned in showdown, but we want to differentiate our meta from the aforementioned platform. Find a way to a new way to test future additions, a suspect test of sort. As you may see we are just starting with them so they come pretty bare, we want to improve this. We are still at pretty primitive steps in the matter, however we strive to improve this for future testings. Mainly a way to allow players to freely suspect test without affecting the economy. I appreciate this sort of feedback as it lets us knows the flaws of what we are doing, we will try to seek a way to patch this. Again, we want to differentiate our meta from Smogon. If we are just a copypaste, where would be the individuality of PRO Meta? Thats what i like to see. Actual analysis. Would you think Landorus would bring more variety into the meta? Players complain the meta right now its pretty Stall-heavy. Would you think it force people to run an answer to Landorus? Or that it deserves the ban? If its the hidden ability that should be banned or the pokemon as a whole?

Changelog 5/22/2020: Kamis - Tentative == Tornadus-Therian -> S It fits on everything. The only reliable defensive answer is Zapdos... and praying Hurricane misses. Good luck. Landorus -> A+ While arguably broken, it has yet to warp the metagame around it, and its flexibility is unexplored. However, it is already evident that it is incredibly strong. Tornadus-Therian is answered by Zapdos, a solid Pokemon most teams do not mind running, while the only Pokemon that reliably beats all Landorus sets is... Cresselia. Landorus-Therian -> A+ Landorus-Therian is excellent glue for any team. It has many viable sets: Scarf, one of the best revenge-killers in the game; Swords Dance, one of the few setup-sweepers capable of breaking through Unaware Clefable, and it is one of the best Stealth Rock setters in the game. However, it is held in check by some of the best Pokemon in the metagame, such as Tornadus-Therian and Rotom-Wash. Thundurus / Thundurus-Therian -> A- The potential for these Electric-types is there, but few have experimented with either due to the difficulty of obtaining Hidden Power Ice or Flying in this game. This is the most tentative rating in this update, and is easily subject to change. Tornadus -> C Unless you desperately need Prankster Defog, use Tornadus-Therian. Updates == Togekiss A+ -> A Baton Pass was one of the strongest contexts for Nasty Plot Togekiss. It no longer exists. Volcarona A+ -> A Meta trends have not been kind to Volcarona. While poor utilization is partially to blame for its bad performance, the heavy prevalence of priority is difficult for this moth to handle. Tentacruel A- -> B+ Hazard control is more accessible than ever with the addition of both Landorus-Therian and Tornadus-Therian. Thus, Tentacruel's niche shrinks.

Very helpful seller, really good communication and traveled all the way to where I was. 10/10

See above, it's not a question of innocence or guiltiness. If you consistently deny having used something, you are lying. If you can't admit to using something, you will never be able to accurately answer other questions. In fact if you scream insults at us, swear and consistently deny cheating then there isn't much we can do for you. Detection bans, it's impossible to show evidence and for videos we make as GMs. Those procedures our fool-proof, with 100% certainty. You wouldn't be banned if you were actually there playing yourself. The system isn't anything new, it's been in place for +1 year and GM methods even much longer. As for your friends/your clanmates getting banned now. It is simply backlog we have to work through due to shortage of GMs at times. It is pretty save to say that people will lie to you. I would love to have players who only play cleanly, it's something we strive for however its never gonna happen. I am open to any questions as long as I can answer them.

If someone gets banned, is there any way at all to get unbanned (without creating a new account)? hackers/cheaters” get banned, but everyone deserves a second chance right? Instant perm ban really hurts a lot of people.

start

Lots of modding is subjective, appeals are good because they provide a 2nd look at the subjectivity. Judges hand out longer sentences just before lunch, and just after lunch are the most forgiving.

And ofc went in game again today. And its still there. This game says its free to play, but theres this p2w part of it. And also they should fix this glitch instead of adding stuffs to sneak through the pockets of the players. My boredom of this game in the rate of 1-10 itsbalready 9. And now im thinking, what if gamefreak intervenes in this situation

Bump

Bonjour tout le monde, créez une guilde FR et recrutez sur le serveur d'argent, vous êtes le bienvenu. Venez nombreux il y a la place. Bon jeu à tous Pour la personne qui son intéresser laisse moi un message ou un like. teamrochetfr. Merci